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[Music]

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[Applause]

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foreign

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[Music]

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foreign

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[Music]

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live from the depths of the k-hole I've

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bid you all good evening good morning

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good afternoon wherever you may be

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Across the Nation around the world my

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name is Leah Prime and this is the

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invisible night school

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for those of us just joining us the

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invisible night school is a small

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Consortium of Lee researchers and

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Scholars we're basically here to have

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good conversation and good faith with

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lots of other smart people

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um you guys know the drill at this point

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um without any further delay I'm going

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to be bringing on my co-host for the

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evening we have Nick

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what's up what's up and Jay hey good

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evening everybody good evening and

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unfortunately we had a last minute

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cancellation I think Campbell had way

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too much fun at the Taylor Swift concert

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so he's taking the night off

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um and uh around the bottom of the hour

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we'll be joined by Mike from mind Escape

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um one of the podcasts I co-host pretty

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frequently

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um he'll be joining we'll talk about

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creativity psychedelics Consciousness

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all that good stuff also give him a

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chance to basically plug and talk

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through his recent uh documentary uh

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that he put out uh with his co-host

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about basically about psychedelics

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Consciousness and UFO is basically how

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they all connect together

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um you're in that documentary aren't you

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I am um and it's a very interesting

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thing I I

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was interviewed for it in the very early

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days of when I started live streaming

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and doing podcasts and so when I go back

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and watch or listen to myself I sound so

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nervous I like so strung up because I

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was trying to collect and articulate my

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thoughts and also thinking oh this is

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going to go in some documentary lots of

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people are going to watch this

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um and now it's like old hat I'm like oh

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yeah there's lots of people like

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watching whatever I'm talking about and

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I don't really think about it anymore

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but it's cute getting a look at little

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baby Leah trying to articulate her

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thoughts on the relationship between DMT

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entities and Aliens

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I I try not to go back and re-listen to

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anything anyway just to save myself any

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embarrassment

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I uh occasionally go back and listen to

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my very first podcast appearance just

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because it keeps me humble maybe I

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should then just uh

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the first few shows we did I would

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always go back and listen because I

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wanted to get a sense of where I could

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improve

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and also to get a sense of things that I

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was talking about that I wanted to

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revisit more in depth so I could like

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surface more insight instead of just

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constantly recycling the same ideas what

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were we talking about in the first ones

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like Calvin and stuff wasn't it that era

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yeah Calvin uh was our very first

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um we did a show on the occult and its

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relationship to ufology we did a ghost

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show

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um we brought on Jack Brewer I mean

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we're only up to show 35 but I mean dude

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we've been doing this now for like nine

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months did you talk about

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um

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Alexander the euphinats on your UFOs and

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the Occult show no but we should have

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because that's like Lewis loves that

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book okay yeah he's talked about it a

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number of times

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it's an interesting read I mean

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it basically the tldr is do magic and

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you'll keep the UFO a knots away from

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and the diro over underground you know

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arrow that comes from the shaver mystery

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yes because the whole uh back of that

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book is the uh

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eponymous Terry wrist

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um who is a it was like a Vietnam

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special forces guy who's battling

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battling the diro underground now this

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isn't the guy who was uh related to The

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Maury Island UFO incident is it no okay

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because one of those Witnesses turned

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out to be

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um

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in a bit of contact with Ray Palmer and

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claimed that he fought adero or was shot

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by adero maybe yeah that guy was shot

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but this guy is really this is like I

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would again I would watch the movie or

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play the video game of like hard-boiled

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Vietnam Vets like guys that were it like

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the tunnel rats and stuff descending

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into

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um Hollow Earth and

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um you know blasting uh diro with M16s

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and rugers while their compatriots are

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melted by heat rays and yeah it's like I

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mean it's pretty cool I feel like in a

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strange way that this is uh tying into

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the kind of elephant in the room and the

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thing I feel a little obligated to

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discussed today sure because I mean

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we're talking about Daryl and we're

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talking about Ray Palmer who essentially

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invented this whole Mythos that we now

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have another government whistleblower

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talking about

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um what do you guys thoughts on on this

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uh this new story that came out from um

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Blumenthal and and Leslie Kane again

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just like 2017. you know what were you

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guys takes on that well so let's take a

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step back and just talk through at an

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informational level what we're

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referencing okay um basically uh about

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10 days ago an article came out by

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Leslie King and Ralph Blumenthal they

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were also the authors of the 2017

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article in the New York Times that

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basically centered Lu Elizondo

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um

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and their article that was published in

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the debrief

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showcases a Former Intelligence official

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David grush who

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basically made claims that the U.S

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federal government maintains a UFO crash

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retrieval program and that in within the

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possession of the United States

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government are up to 12 spacecraft

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he also went on to state that he had

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filed a complaint with the office of the

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intelligence Community Inspector General

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and IG complaint which is similar to I

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believe uh elizondo's actions as well

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um so he's he's made all these pretty

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um striking claims very similar to

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claims that we've heard before yeah

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um and it was featured in this article

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in the debrief so not exactly a paper of

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record for our current moment this

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wasn't the Washington Post do the New

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York Times

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um and then was subsequently interviewed

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on Sunday night by Ross coldheart who

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um is I think besides keen and

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Blumenthal probably the major journalist

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Who's involved in reporting on these

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stories yes the UFO guy that's not

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um

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not George Knapp's not the major

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journalist no it's not George Knapp um

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and I think the interesting thing to

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note about Colter cold heart cold

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Sartorius

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whatever

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you know until he's involved like I

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don't want to say he was totally

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legitimate until UFOs but he had a very

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strong reputation in journalism I think

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he was primarily a music reporter and

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like culture reporter before delving

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into UFOs and had um something of an

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impressive pedigree journalistically

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um and so I think you know rightly or

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wrongly he has done a lot to legitimize

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the subject and the court of public

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opinion because he is entering and like

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investigating with this

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um

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well regarded background

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yeah well-regarded backgrounds are kind

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of a a theme here well

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what I would say well-regarded

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backgrounds though are a theme to a

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point because the longer like we leave

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this story kind of was breaking I think

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the last time I was on a couple weeks

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ago with Garrett Kelly to start and I

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feel on a long enough timeline this is

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degenerating now as like certain The

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credibility is degenerating as like

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certain characters like Lou Elizondo

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rarer his head or things like this um

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1933 Italian UFO recovery that like

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um and I feel like and I'm I'll be

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honest like I I have not

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bought into it enough to go check out

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the primary sources like I know Crush

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did an interview but when people are

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telling me like kind of the secondary

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sources the tldr through Twitter and

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other people it sounds again to me like

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Russia's

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um been exposed to like it's almost like

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the discredited Tim good stuff like it's

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very mj-12 it Eisenhower compact like

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all of the stuff that we sort of

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consider BS now but I I think one of the

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things

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um

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so

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strange Skies podcast said that he felt

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like 2017 was a like uh reset moment

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like

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um the Thanos snap and

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I and I think I see that with this

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because you know

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post 2017 we have a ton of new people

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that were like a ton of new UFO people

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like just like the the people tweeting

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lots of lots of tweeters that weren't

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like in this stuff or interested in it

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before and it kind of also like guys

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like nap kind of like gave them it was

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like somebody got the reanimator juice

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and like shot nap with the reanimator

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juice and now I think it's called Adrina

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Chrome

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he's he's no no

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he's back he's back with that and but

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unfortunately it's like a side effect

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it's like everybody is credulous because

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ufology started in 2017.

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so the stuff like and I think Gersh

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might believe this but there's kind of

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like at a certain point like body body

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Camaro like no no like somebody needs to

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slip him a copy of Mirage man

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be like it's me just kind of

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you know

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the Believers that are kind of like

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digging their heels on this and

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claiming that it is anything new

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are pointing to

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um

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they're pointing to the credentials of

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this of this whistleblower right it's

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all the same old [\h__\h] every UFO story we

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hear that he talked about uh Malmstrom

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with salus who in fact back in the 90s

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tried to do this exact same thing

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um

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it's it's all the same it's all the same

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old stuff but it's in a fancy new suit

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and you see the people who are still

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trying to perpetuate this or like drama

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the people still beating their Shields

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about this that is their argument look

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at how shiny and fancy this suit is that

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we have on this whole story

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but it's still the same old story no one

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seems to speak to

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00:12:34,250 --> 00:12:32,339
the little bit of the claims that we're

280
00:12:35,750 --> 00:12:34,260
we're seeing so so what he's

281
00:12:38,090 --> 00:12:35,760
whistleblowing on isn't first-hand

282
00:12:41,090 --> 00:12:38,100
information it was information given to

283
00:12:43,310 --> 00:12:41,100
him by sources and we're slowly starting

284
00:12:46,250 --> 00:12:43,320
to realize who these sources are

285
00:12:49,490 --> 00:12:46,260
Lu Elizondo Jay Stratton

286
00:12:51,430 --> 00:12:49,500
um Eric Davis so we know that this is

287
00:12:54,050 --> 00:12:51,440
related to like the Wilson Davis

288
00:12:57,769 --> 00:12:54,060
documents right

289
00:12:59,930 --> 00:12:57,779
um Malmstrom again this Malmstrom was a

290
00:13:00,710 --> 00:12:59,940
hoax it was I think a hoax perpetuated

291
00:13:02,210 --> 00:13:00,720
to

292
00:13:05,449 --> 00:13:02,220
achieve kind of the same thing that's

293
00:13:06,829 --> 00:13:05,459
going on right now which the the terms

294
00:13:10,009 --> 00:13:06,839
going around there a lot and I agree

295
00:13:12,350 --> 00:13:10,019
with it this is a reboot of 2017. it's

296
00:13:13,910 --> 00:13:12,360
the same cast of characters putting

297
00:13:17,150 --> 00:13:13,920
forth a story trying to get media

298
00:13:18,829 --> 00:13:17,160
legitimacy and I think that like that's

299
00:13:20,870 --> 00:13:18,839
the overall goal I don't know like

300
00:13:23,930 --> 00:13:20,880
seeing people on TV with ties say the

301
00:13:26,629 --> 00:13:23,940
word UFO because no evidence yeah is

302
00:13:29,629 --> 00:13:26,639
being right being given time what are we

303
00:13:31,690 --> 00:13:29,639
supposed to do I I think again like I

304
00:13:34,490 --> 00:13:31,700
think there's a distant possibility that

305
00:13:37,610 --> 00:13:34,500
Rush got kind of roped into this and

306
00:13:40,250 --> 00:13:37,620
believes all of it and yeah isn't a guy

307
00:13:41,449 --> 00:13:40,260
that's familiar with any of this stuff I

308
00:13:43,190 --> 00:13:41,459
also think when you're talking about

309
00:13:46,730 --> 00:13:43,200
like The Shining credentials not to

310
00:13:49,069 --> 00:13:46,740
discredit the man but Richard Doty has

311
00:13:51,470 --> 00:13:49,079
credentials like you could I could say

312
00:13:53,449 --> 00:13:51,480
Richard Dodie is like well he was a he

313
00:13:56,150 --> 00:13:53,459
was in you know Air Force intelligence

314
00:13:57,530 --> 00:13:56,160
and he was in this and he's like we have

315
00:13:59,870 --> 00:13:57,540
this very

316
00:14:02,150 --> 00:13:59,880
um I don't know we we're like playing a

317
00:14:04,430 --> 00:14:02,160
little bit of select a spook because

318
00:14:06,350 --> 00:14:04,440
it's like I don't like these guys eyes

319
00:14:07,790 --> 00:14:06,360
when they do stuff I don't like but I

320
00:14:10,610 --> 00:14:07,800
really like them when I when they do

321
00:14:14,150 --> 00:14:10,620
stuff I do like and I'm not saying that

322
00:14:16,250 --> 00:14:14,160
uh again as we're as we're on a timeline

323
00:14:20,210 --> 00:14:16,260
we'll see what this guy's like service

324
00:14:22,790 --> 00:14:20,220
record is like we'll see what his

325
00:14:24,230 --> 00:14:22,800
um real background is like you know

326
00:14:25,790 --> 00:14:24,240
we'll see

327
00:14:28,670 --> 00:14:25,800
does that matter

328
00:14:30,110 --> 00:14:28,680
it does I here's what I think I

329
00:14:32,269 --> 00:14:30,120
personally think

330
00:14:33,650 --> 00:14:32,279
um it matters a lot when you're

331
00:14:35,750 --> 00:14:33,660
determining you have to determine the

332
00:14:37,190 --> 00:14:35,760
overall credibility of the person based

333
00:14:39,470 --> 00:14:37,200
on the historical record of their

334
00:14:42,710 --> 00:14:39,480
actions rather than right their their

335
00:14:43,910 --> 00:14:42,720
established title okay I think like one

336
00:14:46,730 --> 00:14:43,920
of the things

337
00:14:50,269 --> 00:14:46,740
again like going back to we were talking

338
00:14:52,250 --> 00:14:50,279
about uh bottlazar at a point like I was

339
00:14:55,490 --> 00:14:52,260
talking a little bit of smack a month

340
00:14:57,470 --> 00:14:55,500
ago about Bob Lazar on Twitter two

341
00:14:59,689 --> 00:14:57,480
people popped up and the first one said

342
00:15:02,689 --> 00:14:59,699
well he must know engineering he must be

343
00:15:06,230 --> 00:15:02,699
for real if he built those rocket cars

344
00:15:09,430 --> 00:15:06,240
and I'm like so convinced of that have

345
00:15:11,870 --> 00:15:09,440
you built a lot of Estes Rockets

346
00:15:13,970 --> 00:15:11,880
well I'm sort of like My Sweet Summer

347
00:15:15,530 --> 00:15:13,980
child my house is full of electronics

348
00:15:17,870 --> 00:15:15,540
I've built but that does not make me

349
00:15:21,470 --> 00:15:17,880
like like a microelectronic engineer or

350
00:15:23,389 --> 00:15:21,480
anything like I'm I'm I'm just like it's

351
00:15:25,610 --> 00:15:23,399
like a Yeehaw thing and then another

352
00:15:26,930 --> 00:15:25,620
person I guess and this is again kind of

353
00:15:28,850 --> 00:15:26,940
what I said like

354
00:15:31,129 --> 00:15:28,860
um the wanting to believe thing was

355
00:15:32,930 --> 00:15:31,139
immediately like no Lazar is Trivial and

356
00:15:35,449 --> 00:15:32,940
like the conspiracy is covered up as

357
00:15:37,250 --> 00:15:35,459
credentials and here's a bunch of stuff

358
00:15:39,230 --> 00:15:37,260
that I'm like I'm not I'm not reading

359
00:15:41,030 --> 00:15:39,240
this but you know it's like here's a

360
00:15:44,810 --> 00:15:41,040
bunch of stuff about how that happened

361
00:15:46,670 --> 00:15:44,820
so there is a certain point I think

362
00:15:49,430 --> 00:15:46,680
where like

363
00:15:50,629 --> 00:15:49,440
and also again I take another example of

364
00:15:52,850 --> 00:15:50,639
this not calling this guy a

365
00:15:58,310 --> 00:15:52,860
whistleblower at all but the Discord

366
00:16:00,530 --> 00:15:58,320
leaks okay the the Discord leak we have

367
00:16:02,750 --> 00:16:00,540
immediately we have the right wing rush

368
00:16:04,910 --> 00:16:02,760
out to say this guy is a patriot and

369
00:16:07,730 --> 00:16:04,920
he's doing this and we found out that

370
00:16:11,329 --> 00:16:07,740
he's like a deranged right wing like

371
00:16:15,290 --> 00:16:11,339
racist sociopathic weirdo and a lot of

372
00:16:16,610 --> 00:16:15,300
what establishes like

373
00:16:19,430 --> 00:16:16,620
um

374
00:16:21,170 --> 00:16:19,440
your credibility in these sectors is

375
00:16:23,990 --> 00:16:21,180
like it's basically like they're looking

376
00:16:26,210 --> 00:16:24,000
for good Mormon boys which means like

377
00:16:29,090 --> 00:16:26,220
you've never smoked the devil's lettuce

378
00:16:32,930 --> 00:16:29,100
or said any bad words about like Uncle

379
00:16:35,389 --> 00:16:32,940
Sam but other than that

380
00:16:36,889 --> 00:16:35,399
like you could have

381
00:16:41,210 --> 00:16:36,899
any

382
00:16:44,210 --> 00:16:41,220
otherwise so I don't know we just don't

383
00:16:45,650 --> 00:16:44,220
we don't know the guy I also think and

384
00:16:47,389 --> 00:16:45,660
this is going

385
00:16:49,370 --> 00:16:47,399
um I also think there's actually at this

386
00:16:50,870 --> 00:16:49,380
point there's a lot of UFO weirdos that

387
00:16:53,090 --> 00:16:50,880
work for the federal government because

388
00:16:55,610 --> 00:16:53,100
again they don't screen for that

389
00:16:58,490 --> 00:16:55,620
there sure are and they're all friends

390
00:17:00,889 --> 00:16:58,500
with this guy it seems like I personally

391
00:17:03,410 --> 00:17:00,899
don't think who the guy is matters

392
00:17:05,449 --> 00:17:03,420
um because he's just relaying what was

393
00:17:07,549 --> 00:17:05,459
he was told he worked for the uh he was

394
00:17:09,110 --> 00:17:07,559
on the uh UAP task force correct under

395
00:17:10,549 --> 00:17:09,120
Stratton

396
00:17:12,409 --> 00:17:10,559
um he went looking for this stuff and

397
00:17:15,890 --> 00:17:12,419
according to his account he was

398
00:17:18,770 --> 00:17:15,900
approached so I'm I'm presuming This was

399
00:17:20,809 --> 00:17:18,780
um it's a lot like when uh Dr Nolan says

400
00:17:23,110 --> 00:17:20,819
he's approached by the CIA but what he

401
00:17:26,750 --> 00:17:23,120
means is he was approached by kit green

402
00:17:28,970 --> 00:17:26,760
I think Rush was approached by

403
00:17:31,130 --> 00:17:28,980
you know all all these people orbiting

404
00:17:32,810 --> 00:17:31,140
him George Knapp and Corbell I think met

405
00:17:36,230 --> 00:17:32,820
him about a year ago

406
00:17:38,510 --> 00:17:36,240
um lu Elizondo Eric Davis all of these

407
00:17:40,310 --> 00:17:38,520
people who

408
00:17:41,630 --> 00:17:40,320
I do get the impression that they do

409
00:17:43,909 --> 00:17:41,640
believe what they're talking about at

410
00:17:46,430 --> 00:17:43,919
least to an extent I mean we know that

411
00:17:47,810 --> 00:17:46,440
Leslie Kane and Ralph Blumenthal are UFO

412
00:17:51,169 --> 00:17:47,820
people and they believe what they're

413
00:17:53,630 --> 00:17:51,179
saying their story isn't necessarily 100

414
00:17:56,630 --> 00:17:53,640
the truth but they're they're crafting

415
00:17:58,909 --> 00:17:56,640
it they think that the um the means

416
00:18:01,970 --> 00:17:58,919
justify the end right so they think that

417
00:18:04,850 --> 00:18:01,980
like with the 2017 story that was not an

418
00:18:06,470 --> 00:18:04,860
accurate description of um OSAP or what

419
00:18:07,909 --> 00:18:06,480
they were doing on Skinwalker Ranch and

420
00:18:10,250 --> 00:18:07,919
they knew that and they deliberately

421
00:18:13,310 --> 00:18:10,260
left those bits out of the story to kind

422
00:18:15,830 --> 00:18:13,320
of craft a more credible narrative I see

423
00:18:17,870 --> 00:18:15,840
that is happening here again they keep

424
00:18:20,630 --> 00:18:17,880
like I said they keep talking about how

425
00:18:22,490 --> 00:18:20,640
credible this man is and

426
00:18:24,169 --> 00:18:22,500
um you know his service record and all

427
00:18:26,210 --> 00:18:24,179
these things and I think all that's kind

428
00:18:28,430 --> 00:18:26,220
of a distraction because what's he

429
00:18:31,010 --> 00:18:28,440
saying he's saying that beings are

430
00:18:33,409 --> 00:18:31,020
coming here from another dimension and

431
00:18:36,650 --> 00:18:33,419
and killing people right that's one of

432
00:18:41,289 --> 00:18:36,660
the claims yeah um that that how many

433
00:18:43,430 --> 00:18:41,299
crashes do we have uh 12 UFO crafts

434
00:18:44,510 --> 00:18:43,440
Mick West made a really interesting

435
00:18:47,810 --> 00:18:44,520
point

436
00:18:49,970 --> 00:18:47,820
um that like you think about how many

437
00:18:50,930 --> 00:18:49,980
plane crashes we have here on Earth a

438
00:18:54,590 --> 00:18:50,940
year

439
00:18:57,169 --> 00:18:54,600
you know thousands and thousands of

440
00:18:58,850 --> 00:18:57,179
planes in the sky at any moment you know

441
00:19:01,130 --> 00:18:58,860
every day

442
00:19:03,110 --> 00:19:01,140
these these Advanced aliens that are

443
00:19:05,270 --> 00:19:03,120
coming here have like a worse safety

444
00:19:07,549 --> 00:19:05,280
record than us somehow these things are

445
00:19:09,950 --> 00:19:07,559
constantly great thing to say about this

446
00:19:12,890 --> 00:19:09,960
though which is if we take a step back

447
00:19:17,090 --> 00:19:12,900
from this idea

448
00:19:18,950 --> 00:19:17,100
um that oh it's uh the greatest can't

449
00:19:20,630 --> 00:19:18,960
control their flying saucers and they

450
00:19:22,430 --> 00:19:20,640
just keep crashing into like World

451
00:19:26,210 --> 00:19:22,440
Nevada

452
00:19:28,730 --> 00:19:26,220
um but I'm inclined to think or believe

453
00:19:30,289 --> 00:19:28,740
um is if you do

454
00:19:32,810 --> 00:19:30,299
how do I put this

455
00:19:35,330 --> 00:19:32,820
the framing I would approach this with

456
00:19:36,830 --> 00:19:35,340
and again my standard lead disclaimer of

457
00:19:38,690 --> 00:19:36,840
let's engage with ideas we don't

458
00:19:40,730 --> 00:19:38,700
necessarily agree with or believe but

459
00:19:44,510 --> 00:19:40,740
like actually talk about things all

460
00:19:46,970 --> 00:19:44,520
right engage me yes Nick I'm about to

461
00:19:49,549 --> 00:19:46,980
engage you man let's go um this idea

462
00:19:51,289 --> 00:19:49,559
that these crashes are actual deliberate

463
00:19:55,310 --> 00:19:51,299
control mechanisms that are meant to

464
00:19:57,409 --> 00:19:55,320
introduce and Sway and compel the

465
00:19:59,930 --> 00:19:57,419
trajectory of humanity or particular

466
00:20:02,110 --> 00:19:59,940
parts of humanity in a very specific

467
00:20:04,430 --> 00:20:02,120
Direction yeah

468
00:20:06,470 --> 00:20:04,440
this is the valet thing this is kind of

469
00:20:08,750 --> 00:20:06,480
the Jacques not this is Jacques valet

470
00:20:11,210 --> 00:20:08,760
but also a little bit John Keel

471
00:20:12,710 --> 00:20:11,220
um but this idea that these are very

472
00:20:16,789 --> 00:20:12,720
deliberate

473
00:20:19,789 --> 00:20:16,799
and intentional insertions of disruptive

474
00:20:22,130 --> 00:20:19,799
events into human history meant to

475
00:20:24,890 --> 00:20:22,140
compel the progression or trajectory of

476
00:20:27,890 --> 00:20:24,900
humanity towards a particular outcome or

477
00:20:30,289 --> 00:20:27,900
with a particular teleology in mind

478
00:20:30,830 --> 00:20:30,299
um and that it is

479
00:20:36,890 --> 00:20:30,840
um

480
00:20:38,330 --> 00:20:36,900
that we just are like man that sucks

481
00:20:39,950 --> 00:20:38,340
they can't fly their flying saucers

482
00:20:42,470 --> 00:20:39,960
right when it's actually something much

483
00:20:43,909 --> 00:20:42,480
larger going on in terms of

484
00:20:50,930 --> 00:20:43,919
um

485
00:20:52,909 --> 00:20:50,940
ask you this since a lot of these

486
00:20:55,430 --> 00:20:52,919
crashes that we all know in the lore and

487
00:20:59,210 --> 00:20:55,440
what is still being pushed happened

488
00:21:02,870 --> 00:20:59,220
nearly 80 years ago what do you suspect

489
00:21:04,070 --> 00:21:02,880
that that intervention uh achieved in

490
00:21:07,370 --> 00:21:04,080
any way

491
00:21:08,750 --> 00:21:07,380
sure so it's a really good question

492
00:21:09,650 --> 00:21:08,760
um I'm just gonna answer totally off the

493
00:21:11,810 --> 00:21:09,660
cuff

494
00:21:14,450 --> 00:21:11,820
um you know there's definitely arguments

495
00:21:16,370 --> 00:21:14,460
about introducing or seeding Humanity

496
00:21:17,750 --> 00:21:16,380
with new technology I saw Duncan made a

497
00:21:19,490 --> 00:21:17,760
mention of this

498
00:21:20,810 --> 00:21:19,500
um because that's always been Bigelow's

499
00:21:22,970 --> 00:21:20,820
Theory that's also something you heard

500
00:21:24,950 --> 00:21:22,980
from Philip Corso the day after Roswell

501
00:21:28,190 --> 00:21:24,960
like this introduced basically like

502
00:21:29,810 --> 00:21:28,200
micro Computing fiber optics Etc

503
00:21:33,710 --> 00:21:29,820
um but so I would I would actually go a

504
00:21:36,350 --> 00:21:33,720
step further or a step into the more

505
00:21:39,830 --> 00:21:36,360
abstract which is what it has done as

506
00:21:43,549 --> 00:21:39,840
well is it has sparked the popular

507
00:21:46,430 --> 00:21:43,559
imagination in very interesting ways

508
00:21:48,289 --> 00:21:46,440
that other events have not in that that

509
00:21:51,289 --> 00:21:48,299
opening of the mind or that opening of

510
00:21:53,870 --> 00:21:51,299
the public imagination in turn has a

511
00:21:55,789 --> 00:21:53,880
ripple effect in terms of our own

512
00:21:57,649 --> 00:21:55,799
Innovation both

513
00:21:59,090 --> 00:21:57,659
um in straight creativity and also in

514
00:22:02,510 --> 00:21:59,100
technology

515
00:22:04,610 --> 00:22:02,520
like as these ideas basically

516
00:22:06,529 --> 00:22:04,620
um it's

517
00:22:08,630 --> 00:22:06,539
it's kind of like the opposite of Mark

518
00:22:10,909 --> 00:22:08,640
Fisher's thesis and capitalist realism

519
00:22:13,549 --> 00:22:10,919
where capitalism basically strictures

520
00:22:16,250 --> 00:22:13,559
and makes brittle the creative impulse

521
00:22:18,230 --> 00:22:16,260
because it prevents the consideration of

522
00:22:19,730 --> 00:22:18,240
anything outside of capitalism right

523
00:22:24,830 --> 00:22:19,740
this is like the reverse like this

524
00:22:26,990 --> 00:22:24,840
introduces a a more Rich ground for

525
00:22:29,090 --> 00:22:27,000
Innovative and creative thought that

526
00:22:32,149 --> 00:22:29,100
otherwise would have been

527
00:22:33,950 --> 00:22:32,159
um maybe not emerged organically I think

528
00:22:35,570 --> 00:22:33,960
that's interesting because like you and

529
00:22:36,830 --> 00:22:35,580
I have both seen

530
00:22:39,950 --> 00:22:36,840
um just in the stuff that we've talked

531
00:22:42,470 --> 00:22:39,960
about that um this UFO phenomena kind of

532
00:22:44,270 --> 00:22:42,480
comes after our creativity and

533
00:22:46,310 --> 00:22:44,280
Innovation you know we come up with

534
00:22:49,370 --> 00:22:46,320
these concepts of like

535
00:22:51,710 --> 00:22:49,380
Life on Mars until we get out there we

536
00:22:52,909 --> 00:22:51,720
uh you know we did that whole thing on

537
00:22:55,190 --> 00:22:52,919
vehicle interference which someone

538
00:22:57,529 --> 00:22:55,200
mentioned in the chat I mean we saw kind

539
00:23:00,049 --> 00:22:57,539
of the cultural Roots where those came

540
00:23:02,810 --> 00:23:00,059
from so it's almost like these these

541
00:23:05,029 --> 00:23:02,820
Innovations and stuff precede them it

542
00:23:07,850 --> 00:23:05,039
might so I disagree with you completely

543
00:23:09,950 --> 00:23:07,860
right yeah no this is good though right

544
00:23:12,830 --> 00:23:09,960
you're making me think about this in a

545
00:23:16,310 --> 00:23:12,840
new way I think the other like the other

546
00:23:18,770 --> 00:23:16,320
issue for me is this goes back to my

547
00:23:21,169 --> 00:23:18,780
whole like nobody knows anything it's

548
00:23:23,270 --> 00:23:21,179
great to say like but it's great to say

549
00:23:25,970 --> 00:23:23,280
like we had

550
00:23:28,490 --> 00:23:25,980
um like the aliens gave us the microwave

551
00:23:30,470 --> 00:23:28,500
oven until you start getting into like

552
00:23:32,930 --> 00:23:30,480
if unless you're like a big enough nerd

553
00:23:34,730 --> 00:23:32,940
to like read about how how these

554
00:23:36,590 --> 00:23:34,740
Technologies evolved because you're like

555
00:23:39,770 --> 00:23:36,600
you know reading the history of the

556
00:23:41,930 --> 00:23:39,780
computer like Wikipedia entry I got that

557
00:23:44,270 --> 00:23:41,940
um Bill Rose book on flying saucer

558
00:23:46,909 --> 00:23:44,280
shaped aircraft finally

559
00:23:48,950 --> 00:23:46,919
um and bills Bill's thing was that he

560
00:23:51,409 --> 00:23:48,960
thinks again that the actually was like

561
00:23:53,630 --> 00:23:51,419
the other way like the UFO phenomenon

562
00:23:55,549 --> 00:23:53,640
sees the imagination of so many people

563
00:23:57,529 --> 00:23:55,559
that these guys were like let's try to

564
00:24:00,409 --> 00:23:57,539
make this work like let's try to make

565
00:24:02,570 --> 00:24:00,419
that we we reduce and but on the other

566
00:24:04,490 --> 00:24:02,580
hand it was like nobody could like

567
00:24:07,130 --> 00:24:04,500
there's a million you know there's a

568
00:24:09,409 --> 00:24:07,140
bunch of uh saucer-shaped

569
00:24:12,770 --> 00:24:09,419
um craft that never like that's not the

570
00:24:14,750 --> 00:24:12,780
predominant the predominant thing other

571
00:24:17,570 --> 00:24:14,760
things I think the oh the thing that's

572
00:24:19,490 --> 00:24:17,580
been getting me lately is what we what

573
00:24:22,789 --> 00:24:19,500
in the like the Mythos of this we

574
00:24:24,590 --> 00:24:22,799
discard and what we ignore and I think

575
00:24:26,510 --> 00:24:24,600
um like one of the discard things so I

576
00:24:28,370 --> 00:24:26,520
had a weird brain fart and was thinking

577
00:24:31,070 --> 00:24:28,380
just out of the blue about Glen Campbell

578
00:24:36,470 --> 00:24:31,080
and the Groom Lake Desert Rat or maybe

579
00:24:41,690 --> 00:24:38,750
there was a guy who was a prominent

580
00:24:43,730 --> 00:24:41,700
figure in ufology in the like early to

581
00:24:45,649 --> 00:24:43,740
mid 90s named with Glenn Campbell he

582
00:24:50,450 --> 00:24:45,659
lived in Rachel Nevada which is right

583
00:24:52,310 --> 00:24:50,460
out by Area 51 and he was involved in

584
00:24:54,169 --> 00:24:52,320
this early it was a list serve

585
00:24:57,890 --> 00:24:54,179
newsletter for those of you it's kind of

586
00:24:59,630 --> 00:24:57,900
a Proto pre-web internet mailing list

587
00:25:02,270 --> 00:24:59,640
um based thing where he would

588
00:25:04,970 --> 00:25:02,280
disseminate this stuff he was he wrote a

589
00:25:07,250 --> 00:25:04,980
lot about Bob Lazar really early because

590
00:25:09,409 --> 00:25:07,260
he was out there when that stuff was

591
00:25:10,970 --> 00:25:09,419
happening and I assume that big

592
00:25:13,330 --> 00:25:10,980
intersection with Art Bell because Art

593
00:25:16,669 --> 00:25:13,340
Bell was out there and then

594
00:25:19,490 --> 00:25:16,679
yeah and those guys like Glenn passed

595
00:25:23,570 --> 00:25:19,500
away I think three or four years ago

596
00:25:26,990 --> 00:25:23,580
um but he he did this this and it I

597
00:25:29,149 --> 00:25:27,000
think he ran for X number of issues um

598
00:25:31,010 --> 00:25:29,159
he moved it to the web eventually but

599
00:25:34,070 --> 00:25:31,020
like one of Glenn's things was he

600
00:25:36,409 --> 00:25:34,080
allegedly had contact with another

601
00:25:38,990 --> 00:25:36,419
um researcher who had worked on the same

602
00:25:41,870 --> 00:25:39,000
program that Lazar had who was just

603
00:25:44,510 --> 00:25:41,880
going by the pseudonym j-rod 2 and

604
00:25:48,529 --> 00:25:44,520
j-rod2 there was j-rod one who was a

605
00:25:50,810 --> 00:25:48,539
legitimate gray in this in this step in

606
00:25:53,390 --> 00:25:50,820
extra biological entity I've covered a

607
00:25:55,310 --> 00:25:53,400
lot of those he was an Ebe and he gave

608
00:25:57,710 --> 00:25:55,320
them a bunch of he was working on they

609
00:25:59,870 --> 00:25:57,720
built a a flight simulator for the sport

610
00:26:01,310 --> 00:25:59,880
model but the flight simulator was

611
00:26:04,010 --> 00:26:01,320
really like it worked on the same

612
00:26:07,370 --> 00:26:04,020
physics it was just on a big robot arm

613
00:26:09,710 --> 00:26:07,380
to train U.S Pilots to fly like the

614
00:26:10,789 --> 00:26:09,720
Lazar sport model and I was just

615
00:26:13,250 --> 00:26:10,799
thinking about this because you know

616
00:26:15,850 --> 00:26:13,260
when when again when somebody when the

617
00:26:18,110 --> 00:26:15,860
animator juice kind of flew through

618
00:26:20,330 --> 00:26:18,120
flowed through ufology and got to Bob

619
00:26:22,850 --> 00:26:20,340
Lazar like I can't find anything about

620
00:26:26,330 --> 00:26:22,860
j-rod too he'd probably be dead by now

621
00:26:28,909 --> 00:26:26,340
because he was in his 70s in the in like

622
00:26:30,769 --> 00:26:28,919
1994 when Glenn was writing this he

623
00:26:32,510 --> 00:26:30,779
could still be alive but

624
00:26:34,370 --> 00:26:32,520
um it seems unlikely and it's just but

625
00:26:37,430 --> 00:26:34,380
it's like that's a discarded piece of

626
00:26:39,289 --> 00:26:37,440
this another like weird thing now the

627
00:26:40,750 --> 00:26:39,299
one thing that has happened between a

628
00:26:44,769 --> 00:26:40,760
combination of this stuff and

629
00:26:48,230 --> 00:26:44,779
unfortunately uh with uh

630
00:26:50,090 --> 00:26:48,240
yeah Jeff ebe1 died June 18th but

631
00:26:51,710 --> 00:26:50,100
where's EV E2 that's we're asking about

632
00:26:56,090 --> 00:26:51,720
yeah

633
00:26:57,649 --> 00:26:56,100
um straight uh straight um

634
00:26:59,269 --> 00:26:57,659
to discredit

635
00:27:00,890 --> 00:26:59,279
um now discredited Tweeter Whitley

636
00:27:02,990 --> 00:27:00,900
Schreiber

637
00:27:04,490 --> 00:27:03,000
um we have like I think one of the

638
00:27:08,630 --> 00:27:04,500
things that happens with all this stuff

639
00:27:14,570 --> 00:27:08,640
is the Mythos paves over the evidence

640
00:27:18,890 --> 00:27:14,580
the evidence being the reports of the um

641
00:27:20,450 --> 00:27:18,900
sightings I was at uh I think I told you

642
00:27:23,810 --> 00:27:20,460
guys this I was a small town monster

643
00:27:25,909 --> 00:27:23,820
Fest a weekend ago so Stan Gordon is

644
00:27:29,149 --> 00:27:25,919
there for those that don't know Stan

645
00:27:31,490 --> 00:27:29,159
Gordon is a Pennsylvania UFO and 40 in

646
00:27:34,909 --> 00:27:31,500
researcher he's still active

647
00:27:39,950 --> 00:27:34,919
um and there was a a flap in the early

648
00:27:42,649 --> 00:27:39,960
70s in um Western PA that

649
00:27:43,789 --> 00:27:42,659
um was a UFO flat but also coincided

650
00:27:46,130 --> 00:27:43,799
with a lot of

651
00:27:49,549 --> 00:27:46,140
um Bigfoot type creatures and General

652
00:27:51,470 --> 00:27:49,559
High strangeness and one of the things

653
00:27:54,110 --> 00:27:51,480
that I realized I'm so I'm reading

654
00:27:56,269 --> 00:27:54,120
secret Invasion this is Stan Gordon and

655
00:27:58,310 --> 00:27:56,279
a lot of it it's I don't say it's it's

656
00:27:59,870 --> 00:27:58,320
not dry but it's not a narrative he's

657
00:28:01,730 --> 00:27:59,880
publishing his like these are his

658
00:28:04,850 --> 00:28:01,740
reports he's just slipping through this

659
00:28:06,409 --> 00:28:04,860
happen the honest idea to visualize like

660
00:28:09,110 --> 00:28:06,419
I want to make a diagram of everything

661
00:28:12,409 --> 00:28:09,120
that you can put out because we have

662
00:28:16,510 --> 00:28:12,419
this very like we have this very

663
00:28:21,549 --> 00:28:19,850
Mythos based idea of like the the

664
00:28:25,730 --> 00:28:21,559
physical

665
00:28:27,590 --> 00:28:25,740
saucer craft the gray alien but it's

666
00:28:29,510 --> 00:28:27,600
like they're seeing you know they're

667
00:28:31,250 --> 00:28:29,520
seeing Torpedoes they're seeing a flying

668
00:28:33,409 --> 00:28:31,260
antenna they're seeing orange balls

669
00:28:35,090 --> 00:28:33,419
they're seeing bigfoots they're seeing

670
00:28:36,890 --> 00:28:35,100
the ones that are 10 feet tall ones that

671
00:28:38,690 --> 00:28:36,900
are six feet tall ones that are stocky

672
00:28:41,330 --> 00:28:38,700
ones that have really long arms ones

673
00:28:44,210 --> 00:28:41,340
that are there there's a tremendous like

674
00:28:46,850 --> 00:28:44,220
the variety reported experience

675
00:28:51,769 --> 00:28:49,490
it's vast and I feel like the collective

676
00:28:56,690 --> 00:28:51,779
imagination on this is condensed into

677
00:28:58,490 --> 00:28:56,700
the Grays and Roswell and the ship and I

678
00:29:00,649 --> 00:28:58,500
get slightly

679
00:29:05,510 --> 00:29:03,529
I think this this is it slightly goes

680
00:29:08,990 --> 00:29:05,520
back to the

681
00:29:10,970 --> 00:29:09,000
U.S intelligence controlled official

682
00:29:14,269 --> 00:29:10,980
narrative unofficial unofficial

683
00:29:16,490 --> 00:29:14,279
Narrative of this like and why I said

684
00:29:18,169 --> 00:29:16,500
why'd I say Grudge matters is the reason

685
00:29:20,029 --> 00:29:18,179
like one of the things and this is in

686
00:29:21,830 --> 00:29:20,039
you'll guess that trickster in the

687
00:29:23,870 --> 00:29:21,840
Paranormal they talk my God I know I was

688
00:29:26,630 --> 00:29:23,880
gonna I was waiting for that why because

689
00:29:28,909 --> 00:29:26,640
it seems so Salient why Dodie was picked

690
00:29:30,350 --> 00:29:28,919
okay Jody was picked while he was

691
00:29:32,870 --> 00:29:30,360
approached to received this information

692
00:29:36,049 --> 00:29:32,880
this is hypothetical but he was in ethoc

693
00:29:38,570 --> 00:29:36,059
okay he committed set some errors was

694
00:29:41,269 --> 00:29:38,580
censored for releasing some information

695
00:29:43,070 --> 00:29:41,279
and was it basically considered once

696
00:29:46,250 --> 00:29:43,080
they got him in there they're like oh

697
00:29:47,630 --> 00:29:46,260
this guy is unreliable Like Richard Doty

698
00:29:49,850 --> 00:29:47,640
is never going to move up in the world

699
00:29:52,430 --> 00:29:49,860
of intelligence but he's useful for

700
00:29:56,029 --> 00:29:52,440
disseminating a story if you want and

701
00:29:57,169 --> 00:29:56,039
also he kind of provides a layer of

702
00:29:59,870 --> 00:29:57,179
um

703
00:30:02,570 --> 00:29:59,880
credibility though you know if you don't

704
00:30:03,769 --> 00:30:02,580
dig into that so is that not was that

705
00:30:05,269 --> 00:30:03,779
what you thought I was going to say or

706
00:30:07,610 --> 00:30:05,279
you thinking of something different Leo

707
00:30:09,110 --> 00:30:07,620
from trickster oh I mean honestly I

708
00:30:10,850 --> 00:30:09,120
wasn't paying attention because I was

709
00:30:12,470 --> 00:30:10,860
messaging Mike who's now backstage

710
00:30:14,389 --> 00:30:12,480
absolutely to tell him we're talking

711
00:30:16,490 --> 00:30:14,399
about UFOs and myth I'm gonna get him

712
00:30:18,110 --> 00:30:16,500
added to the stream um and then I'd love

713
00:30:20,810 --> 00:30:18,120
for you to revisit what you were saying

714
00:30:22,010 --> 00:30:20,820
uh about Hanson's book

715
00:30:24,529 --> 00:30:22,020
hey Mike

716
00:30:26,090 --> 00:30:24,539
hey what's going on

717
00:30:29,210 --> 00:30:26,100
um so Mike I actually don't think you've

718
00:30:33,430 --> 00:30:29,220
ever met Nick and Jay uh two of my

719
00:30:37,789 --> 00:30:36,289
okay and the other degenerates we

720
00:30:40,310 --> 00:30:37,799
associate with and psychedelics

721
00:30:41,810 --> 00:30:40,320
Consciousness all that fun stuff

722
00:30:43,490 --> 00:30:41,820
um and I've been pestering Mike to come

723
00:30:44,990 --> 00:30:43,500
on that show for a while

724
00:30:46,909 --> 00:30:45,000
um even though I wouldn't characterize

725
00:30:48,169 --> 00:30:46,919
him as a UFO guy

726
00:30:50,029 --> 00:30:48,179
um

727
00:30:52,490 --> 00:30:50,039
which is a good thing

728
00:30:54,289 --> 00:30:52,500
um a very good thing

729
00:30:55,310 --> 00:30:54,299
um I still thought it'd be a specialized

730
00:30:57,289 --> 00:30:55,320
we're broadening what we're talking

731
00:31:01,570 --> 00:30:57,299
about it'd be great to have him at the

732
00:31:05,750 --> 00:31:03,350
just so you know we're still talking

733
00:31:07,490 --> 00:31:05,760
about grush and UFO missiles well I'll

734
00:31:09,049 --> 00:31:07,500
just give you my take which I haven't

735
00:31:10,730 --> 00:31:09,059
even talked about it but I couldn't do

736
00:31:16,070 --> 00:31:10,740
it I haven't even talked about this on

737
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:20,090
um

738
00:31:23,029 --> 00:31:21,889
so I don't I'm not one of these people

739
00:31:24,950 --> 00:31:23,039
that's going to attack people and be

740
00:31:26,269 --> 00:31:24,960
like oh he's lying oh they're lying

741
00:31:27,289 --> 00:31:26,279
they're all it's all sire they're all

742
00:31:30,230 --> 00:31:27,299
lying

743
00:31:31,789 --> 00:31:30,240
um what I believe is that there's always

744
00:31:34,330 --> 00:31:31,799
this game of telephone playing

745
00:31:36,830 --> 00:31:34,340
especially within the alphabets

746
00:31:38,330 --> 00:31:36,840
and things get disseminated whether

747
00:31:40,850 --> 00:31:38,340
they're true whether they're false look

748
00:31:42,830 --> 00:31:40,860
at the Lazar stuff was was he even part

749
00:31:45,470 --> 00:31:42,840
of that did he even Elevate to the level

750
00:31:47,690 --> 00:31:45,480
of what this guy is that he would have

751
00:31:48,409 --> 00:31:47,700
had access to

752
00:31:50,990 --> 00:31:48,419
um

753
00:31:53,149 --> 00:31:51,000
all this stuff and and for me it's like

754
00:31:55,130 --> 00:31:53,159
that's not what's interesting about the

755
00:31:56,990 --> 00:31:55,140
phenomenon to me

756
00:31:59,570 --> 00:31:57,000
um that's why when you listen to our

757
00:32:02,570 --> 00:31:59,580
podcast we don't talk about like

758
00:32:03,710 --> 00:32:02,580
the talking heads on UFO Twitter or

759
00:32:06,049 --> 00:32:03,720
whatever's happening because that

760
00:32:08,750 --> 00:32:06,059
doesn't I'm more of I'm more interested

761
00:32:10,610 --> 00:32:08,760
in how it affects and plays off of our

762
00:32:14,389 --> 00:32:10,620
mind and our Consciousness and I don't

763
00:32:17,630 --> 00:32:14,399
feel like many people talk about that in

764
00:32:19,730 --> 00:32:17,640
the more

765
00:32:22,250 --> 00:32:19,740
realistic way that it should be talked

766
00:32:23,690 --> 00:32:22,260
about a lot of it's Woo which is fun I

767
00:32:26,389 --> 00:32:23,700
mean let's all speculate let's all have

768
00:32:27,830 --> 00:32:26,399
fun but it's at some point we all have

769
00:32:31,610 --> 00:32:27,840
to

770
00:32:33,049 --> 00:32:31,620
um you know analyze what is possible in

771
00:32:34,610 --> 00:32:33,059
this reality and what's not I don't want

772
00:32:37,130 --> 00:32:34,620
to waste my time

773
00:32:39,830 --> 00:32:37,140
I've done a lot of research but a lot of

774
00:32:41,690 --> 00:32:39,840
time into this I also understand the

775
00:32:43,970 --> 00:32:41,700
mind really well and I understand how

776
00:32:46,610 --> 00:32:43,980
easy it is to believe things that you

777
00:32:49,430 --> 00:32:46,620
want to believe of via confirmation bias

778
00:32:50,830 --> 00:32:49,440
and different cognitive biases and stuff

779
00:32:54,590 --> 00:32:50,840
like that so

780
00:32:56,330 --> 00:32:54,600
my take on him is we'll we'll wait and

781
00:32:58,730 --> 00:32:56,340
see what happens I don't again I don't

782
00:33:00,769 --> 00:32:58,740
is it possible sure anything's possible

783
00:33:02,630 --> 00:33:00,779
I'm not against it if they have that

784
00:33:04,010 --> 00:33:02,640
awesome like all these people always act

785
00:33:06,169 --> 00:33:04,020
together accurate this would [\h__\h]

786
00:33:09,110 --> 00:33:06,179
rule yeah all these activists that have

787
00:33:11,330 --> 00:33:09,120
put all this time into it um you know

788
00:33:14,029 --> 00:33:11,340
cool and look I have friends you know I

789
00:33:15,289 --> 00:33:14,039
have Toby and Shane and you know Chris

790
00:33:17,210 --> 00:33:15,299
Wolford and all these people are into

791
00:33:19,310 --> 00:33:17,220
the secrecy aspects of that and that's

792
00:33:21,409 --> 00:33:19,320
all wonderful and I would never

793
00:33:22,909 --> 00:33:21,419
you know come at them about any of that

794
00:33:24,049 --> 00:33:22,919
because that's what they want to look

795
00:33:25,610 --> 00:33:24,059
into and that's what they're interested

796
00:33:27,289 --> 00:33:25,620
in just like I'm more interested in the

797
00:33:29,930 --> 00:33:27,299
mind and the philosophical and the

798
00:33:32,210 --> 00:33:29,940
Consciousness aspects of it however

799
00:33:34,250 --> 00:33:32,220
you know there's this great quote that I

800
00:33:36,110 --> 00:33:34,260
always use from Pericles which is time

801
00:33:38,509 --> 00:33:36,120
is the wisest counselor because it's

802
00:33:40,190 --> 00:33:38,519
true time will tell

803
00:33:41,690 --> 00:33:40,200
um and if it doesn't

804
00:33:45,049 --> 00:33:41,700
then it's just going to be another 80

805
00:33:46,909 --> 00:33:45,059
years or 160 years right we've been

806
00:33:49,789 --> 00:33:46,919
waiting

807
00:33:51,649 --> 00:33:49,799
um I will say though I think some people

808
00:33:53,509 --> 00:33:51,659
get lost in the sauce and think that

809
00:33:56,149 --> 00:33:53,519
there's these all-knowing intelligent

810
00:33:57,830 --> 00:33:56,159
people out there and really a lot of

811
00:34:00,110 --> 00:33:57,840
these people are just regular people

812
00:34:01,669 --> 00:34:00,120
that maybe went to basic level college

813
00:34:02,810 --> 00:34:01,679
and then entered the military or went

814
00:34:04,669 --> 00:34:02,820
right from high school into the military

815
00:34:07,130 --> 00:34:04,679
and then built up his career through the

816
00:34:08,030 --> 00:34:07,140
military so it's not like in no offense

817
00:34:11,149 --> 00:34:08,040
any of those people but it's not like

818
00:34:14,810 --> 00:34:11,159
they're Einstein or uh you know

819
00:34:16,669 --> 00:34:14,820
um uh Oppenheimer or anything like that

820
00:34:18,589 --> 00:34:16,679
um and people always talk about secrecy

821
00:34:21,349 --> 00:34:18,599
and stuff like that my take on that is

822
00:34:23,389 --> 00:34:21,359
the most secret project we've ever had

823
00:34:26,990 --> 00:34:23,399
is the Manhattan Project

824
00:34:31,310 --> 00:34:27,000
and we had spies that were involved in

825
00:34:32,990 --> 00:34:31,320
Canada and the US uh Niels Bohr when he

826
00:34:34,190 --> 00:34:33,000
came over even announced it like in the

827
00:34:36,230 --> 00:34:34,200
paper I'm coming to work on this big

828
00:34:38,329 --> 00:34:36,240
project you know and like

829
00:34:40,010 --> 00:34:38,339
um they told Stalin about it like there

830
00:34:42,409 --> 00:34:40,020
was all these things like it was secret

831
00:34:44,270 --> 00:34:42,419
but it wasn't that secret everybody knew

832
00:34:45,430 --> 00:34:44,280
what was happening

833
00:34:47,750 --> 00:34:45,440
um also

834
00:34:51,950 --> 00:34:47,760
Germany was doing the exact same thing

835
00:34:53,930 --> 00:34:51,960
so you know Heisenberg and and all those

836
00:34:56,149 --> 00:34:53,940
uh physicists were doing they were

837
00:34:58,130 --> 00:34:56,159
basically friends with all the people in

838
00:34:59,870 --> 00:34:58,140
the U.S from you know the younger years

839
00:35:02,150 --> 00:34:59,880
in Europe and going to college and stuff

840
00:35:03,829 --> 00:35:02,160
like that but War breaks out people take

841
00:35:06,109 --> 00:35:03,839
sides people are forced to take sides

842
00:35:07,130 --> 00:35:06,119
whatever the case may be

843
00:35:10,430 --> 00:35:07,140
um

844
00:35:12,349 --> 00:35:10,440
so again that's the most secret program

845
00:35:14,390 --> 00:35:12,359
we've ever had and there were still

846
00:35:17,810 --> 00:35:14,400
spies and leaks and all this and this is

847
00:35:19,310 --> 00:35:17,820
before cell phones even like so am I

848
00:35:21,829 --> 00:35:19,320
saying it's impossible no I'm not saying

849
00:35:24,890 --> 00:35:21,839
it's impossible I'm just saying if I had

850
00:35:27,290 --> 00:35:24,900
to bet on it I would bet that we don't

851
00:35:29,510 --> 00:35:27,300
have craft but that's not to say that I

852
00:35:31,609 --> 00:35:29,520
might be wrong either I'm open to the

853
00:35:34,790 --> 00:35:31,619
possibility of being wrong so

854
00:35:37,910 --> 00:35:34,800
I think when I make considerations about

855
00:35:39,890 --> 00:35:37,920
this um and I'm generally at the point

856
00:35:42,050 --> 00:35:39,900
um where I personally don't have any

857
00:35:45,710 --> 00:35:42,060
meaningful opinions or conclusions drawn

858
00:35:48,109 --> 00:35:45,720
about grush or about Elizondo other than

859
00:35:50,870 --> 00:35:48,119
um these are bit players and a very

860
00:35:52,490 --> 00:35:50,880
interesting and compelling tapestry

861
00:35:54,349 --> 00:35:52,500
um one of the things I have warned

862
00:35:57,109 --> 00:35:54,359
because I think I've become something of

863
00:35:59,089 --> 00:35:57,119
the de facto UFO guy in my Social Circle

864
00:36:00,770 --> 00:35:59,099
and on Twitter I've learned a number of

865
00:36:02,750 --> 00:36:00,780
people with this resurgent of interest

866
00:36:05,630 --> 00:36:02,760
that

867
00:36:06,950 --> 00:36:05,640
um nobody has meaningful answers you'll

868
00:36:08,750 --> 00:36:06,960
encounter a lot of different theories

869
00:36:11,329 --> 00:36:08,760
but that anyone who's making

870
00:36:13,490 --> 00:36:11,339
proclamations or conclusive declarations

871
00:36:15,290 --> 00:36:13,500
about the nature or dynamic of this

872
00:36:16,849 --> 00:36:15,300
subject or its causes or what it

873
00:36:19,849 --> 00:36:16,859
actually is

874
00:36:20,630 --> 00:36:19,859
um they should basically be disregarded

875
00:36:24,290 --> 00:36:20,640
um

876
00:36:27,170 --> 00:36:24,300
but uh getting back to my initial Point

877
00:36:28,490 --> 00:36:27,180
um look you do not and I said this

878
00:36:30,530 --> 00:36:28,500
before you do not have to be a

879
00:36:32,810 --> 00:36:30,540
conspiracy theorist to know that there

880
00:36:34,609 --> 00:36:32,820
is a long and storied history of

881
00:36:36,829 --> 00:36:34,619
counterintelligence operations in this

882
00:36:38,450 --> 00:36:36,839
country that have been deliberately and

883
00:36:41,450 --> 00:36:38,460
intentionally

884
00:36:44,510 --> 00:36:41,460
um inserted into all parts of the

885
00:36:46,910 --> 00:36:44,520
cultural social and political milieu in

886
00:36:50,810 --> 00:36:46,920
order to shape opinion to break apart

887
00:36:52,849 --> 00:36:50,820
communities Etc and even if we are in

888
00:36:54,470 --> 00:36:52,859
the ufology community I would say

889
00:36:55,910 --> 00:36:54,480
especially in The Fringe areas like the

890
00:36:56,990 --> 00:36:55,920
French stuff that you see on UFO Twitter

891
00:36:58,670 --> 00:36:57,000
right like I'm not talking about

892
00:37:01,250 --> 00:36:58,680
Michael's swords I'm not talking about

893
00:37:03,230 --> 00:37:01,260
Jan Aldrich I'm talking about like the

894
00:37:05,810 --> 00:37:03,240
real overlap in the Venn diagram between

895
00:37:08,150 --> 00:37:05,820
ufology and like true deep State

896
00:37:09,770 --> 00:37:08,160
conspiratorial thinking the government's

897
00:37:11,510 --> 00:37:09,780
paying attention to all of those yeah

898
00:37:13,370 --> 00:37:11,520
the federal agents pay attention to this

899
00:37:15,109 --> 00:37:13,380
because even though it's not really a

900
00:37:16,970 --> 00:37:15,119
violent subculture it's still a Deeply

901
00:37:18,589 --> 00:37:16,980
conspiratorial One

902
00:37:20,630 --> 00:37:18,599
um and I certainly don't think it's

903
00:37:23,210 --> 00:37:20,640
above the actions of counter

904
00:37:24,890 --> 00:37:23,220
intelligence to insert itself in this

905
00:37:27,410 --> 00:37:24,900
community deliberately attempt to

906
00:37:29,569 --> 00:37:27,420
fracture it or to basically use it to

907
00:37:31,490 --> 00:37:29,579
test and measure different networks to

908
00:37:33,770 --> 00:37:31,500
determine basically how information is

909
00:37:35,870 --> 00:37:33,780
disseminated among complex systems I

910
00:37:38,630 --> 00:37:35,880
mean I would point out Lee and I met

911
00:37:41,030 --> 00:37:38,640
through Twitter spaces a long time ago

912
00:37:43,670 --> 00:37:41,040
everyone important in my life came over

913
00:37:45,109 --> 00:37:43,680
a year ago um I was doing a lot of

914
00:37:48,290 --> 00:37:45,119
spaces and I can tell you there's people

915
00:37:50,569 --> 00:37:48,300
doing multiple voices there's people I

916
00:37:52,250 --> 00:37:50,579
again whether they're mentally ill or

917
00:37:53,329 --> 00:37:52,260
just playing a role or whatever they're

918
00:37:55,430 --> 00:37:53,339
doing

919
00:37:58,370 --> 00:37:55,440
um it's pretty clear to anybody who's

920
00:38:00,829 --> 00:37:58,380
some intelligent what's going on here

921
00:38:02,510 --> 00:38:00,839
um is that somebody's taking notice for

922
00:38:05,930 --> 00:38:02,520
whatever reason

923
00:38:08,990 --> 00:38:05,940
um now aside from from that I would say

924
00:38:11,630 --> 00:38:09,000
that but you got to post a pic I I hope

925
00:38:13,430 --> 00:38:11,640
that that's the case too because we want

926
00:38:16,490 --> 00:38:13,440
you know we don't want crazy people

927
00:38:19,670 --> 00:38:16,500
doing crazy things right so

928
00:38:21,470 --> 00:38:19,680
um you know you is where we don't want

929
00:38:23,990 --> 00:38:21,480
the big brother aspect of it I do think

930
00:38:26,089 --> 00:38:24,000
it is necessary in some regard because I

931
00:38:26,810 --> 00:38:26,099
mean there's radicalized people out

932
00:38:29,510 --> 00:38:26,820
there

933
00:38:30,829 --> 00:38:29,520
um and uh so yeah and I think it's

934
00:38:32,750 --> 00:38:30,839
interesting to point out you mentioned

935
00:38:34,970 --> 00:38:32,760
the conspiratorial aspect of it it's

936
00:38:37,730 --> 00:38:34,980
interesting that there's a lot of people

937
00:38:39,710 --> 00:38:37,740
that are activists that are anti all

938
00:38:42,230 --> 00:38:39,720
other conspiracies except for this

939
00:38:43,270 --> 00:38:42,240
conspiracy right which is like we make

940
00:38:46,790 --> 00:38:43,280
this

941
00:38:48,530 --> 00:38:46,800
yeah exactly so so um I find that very

942
00:38:51,230 --> 00:38:48,540
fascinating from watching UFO Twitter

943
00:38:54,170 --> 00:38:51,240
the last five years this is arguably

944
00:38:56,750 --> 00:38:54,180
though the only hopeful conspiracy yes

945
00:38:58,250 --> 00:38:56,760
that's true so is an optimism I mean

946
00:39:00,410 --> 00:38:58,260
there have been real ones but again why

947
00:39:02,210 --> 00:39:00,420
I I've made it a

948
00:39:03,589 --> 00:39:02,220
part of my philosophy to not waste my

949
00:39:05,210 --> 00:39:03,599
time on it I only want to learn about

950
00:39:07,370 --> 00:39:05,220
things I can know

951
00:39:09,230 --> 00:39:07,380
um I feel like even even most

952
00:39:11,270 --> 00:39:09,240
conspiracies if you look at them it's

953
00:39:13,010 --> 00:39:11,280
yeah there's collusion but I don't think

954
00:39:14,810 --> 00:39:13,020
a lot of the people in the past have

955
00:39:16,790 --> 00:39:14,820
been intelligent enough to know what

956
00:39:18,650 --> 00:39:16,800
they were doing as opposed to it was

957
00:39:20,510 --> 00:39:18,660
just in their best interest to collude

958
00:39:22,670 --> 00:39:20,520
against you know and I think that that's

959
00:39:24,770 --> 00:39:22,680
what these big corporations I don't

960
00:39:26,690 --> 00:39:24,780
think there's one dude like a Mr Burns

961
00:39:28,370 --> 00:39:26,700
at the top saying oh we're gonna poison

962
00:39:30,109 --> 00:39:28,380
all these people we're gonna kill you

963
00:39:32,150 --> 00:39:30,119
know I think it's I don't think it's as

964
00:39:34,069 --> 00:39:32,160
simple as that I think George Soros yeah

965
00:39:35,329 --> 00:39:34,079
it's like how can we maximize profit how

966
00:39:37,069 --> 00:39:35,339
can we maximize this and then he

967
00:39:38,030 --> 00:39:37,079
trickles down and then somebody gets

968
00:39:40,870 --> 00:39:38,040
hurt

969
00:39:43,510 --> 00:39:40,880
um so yeah it's capitalism stupid right

970
00:39:46,490 --> 00:39:43,520
that's what's really hard

971
00:39:48,050 --> 00:39:46,500
yeah far more complex than just right

972
00:39:49,910 --> 00:39:48,060
wrong

973
00:39:54,470 --> 00:39:49,920
um all that but yeah so that's my take

974
00:39:56,210 --> 00:39:54,480
on again I will point out that I believe

975
00:39:58,490 --> 00:39:56,220
there's something to the UFO phenomenon

976
00:39:59,810 --> 00:39:58,500
we just made a documentary about it

977
00:40:01,370 --> 00:39:59,820
um I wouldn't have spent that much time

978
00:40:03,530 --> 00:40:01,380
and effort wouldn't have talked about it

979
00:40:05,210 --> 00:40:03,540
on my podcast the last five years if I

980
00:40:07,430 --> 00:40:05,220
thought and started a separate podcast

981
00:40:09,710 --> 00:40:07,440
uh on the side with Toby and Shane if I

982
00:40:12,470 --> 00:40:09,720
didn't feel like there was something

983
00:40:13,849 --> 00:40:12,480
to that I have a different approach

984
00:40:15,170 --> 00:40:13,859
again I think it's connected to

985
00:40:18,290 --> 00:40:15,180
Consciousness in the mind whether it's

986
00:40:20,990 --> 00:40:18,300
some sort of future Glimpse or maybe an

987
00:40:22,490 --> 00:40:21,000
artifact or something having to do with

988
00:40:23,210 --> 00:40:22,500
all of that

989
00:40:25,970 --> 00:40:23,220
um

990
00:40:27,770 --> 00:40:25,980
you know uh whereas they think that

991
00:40:30,829 --> 00:40:27,780
there might be more of a physical thing

992
00:40:32,990 --> 00:40:30,839
uh that that's landed or whatever so

993
00:40:35,750 --> 00:40:33,000
again that's just my take

994
00:40:38,270 --> 00:40:35,760
um we'll see what what what happens with

995
00:40:41,030 --> 00:40:38,280
uh if there's any hearings or future

996
00:40:45,050 --> 00:40:41,040
stuff with that I just again I just it

997
00:40:47,089 --> 00:40:45,060
makes me not want to look into this

998
00:40:49,430 --> 00:40:47,099
yeah

999
00:40:52,609 --> 00:40:49,440
you know what I'm saying like uh I've

1000
00:40:54,650 --> 00:40:52,619
progressively gotten less interested in

1001
00:40:56,930 --> 00:40:54,660
the government stuff over the last five

1002
00:40:58,970 --> 00:40:56,940
years than I was not that I was some Die

1003
00:41:01,670 --> 00:40:58,980
Hard oh I gotta know every you know

1004
00:41:03,290 --> 00:41:01,680
mj-12 and this and blue book and all you

1005
00:41:04,730 --> 00:41:03,300
know and I do know a lot of those but

1006
00:41:07,130 --> 00:41:04,740
I'm just saying like it's not that was

1007
00:41:08,870 --> 00:41:07,140
never my thing so

1008
00:41:11,030 --> 00:41:08,880
um right again I'm more fascinated at

1009
00:41:12,470 --> 00:41:11,040
the mind and how I think the UFO thing

1010
00:41:14,329 --> 00:41:12,480
is just part of the bigger picture I've

1011
00:41:16,490 --> 00:41:14,339
had my own experiences I've talked to

1012
00:41:18,650 --> 00:41:16,500
people that are the most salt of the

1013
00:41:21,290 --> 00:41:18,660
earth people that why would they lie or

1014
00:41:23,450 --> 00:41:21,300
make it up and I have some of my deep

1015
00:41:25,190 --> 00:41:23,460
dearest friends you know

1016
00:41:26,329 --> 00:41:25,200
um that have seen and experienced things

1017
00:41:28,910 --> 00:41:26,339
so

1018
00:41:32,630 --> 00:41:28,920
um but that I think again I I'm able to

1019
00:41:34,190 --> 00:41:32,640
parse that away from or separate it from

1020
00:41:37,910 --> 00:41:34,200
all the government stuff I don't think a

1021
00:41:42,770 --> 00:41:40,010
fantastic have we had enough of this

1022
00:41:45,950 --> 00:41:42,780
Crush stuff yeah I mean I was gonna use

1023
00:41:48,230 --> 00:41:45,960
uh I was gonna jump right in and ask

1024
00:41:49,849 --> 00:41:48,240
Mike about the documentary he just

1025
00:41:51,470 --> 00:41:49,859
worked on and and I bring that up

1026
00:41:56,329 --> 00:41:51,480
because I think it's a wonderful segue

1027
00:41:58,010 --> 00:41:56,339
from UFO disclosure Crush Etc into some

1028
00:41:59,930 --> 00:41:58,020
um more numinous stuff around

1029
00:42:03,530 --> 00:41:59,940
Consciousness psychedelics and Human

1030
00:42:04,609 --> 00:42:03,540
Experience pause I want everybody to be

1031
00:42:06,470 --> 00:42:04,619
on the same page here because

1032
00:42:09,950 --> 00:42:06,480
Consciousness is a word that gets thrown

1033
00:42:11,990 --> 00:42:09,960
around a lot like Quantum and I wanna I

1034
00:42:14,930 --> 00:42:12,000
wanna know like

1035
00:42:16,849 --> 00:42:14,940
what is your take on Consciousness what

1036
00:42:18,410 --> 00:42:16,859
do you mean by it

1037
00:42:20,930 --> 00:42:18,420
um how do you view it how would you

1038
00:42:23,329 --> 00:42:20,940
explain it

1039
00:42:26,690 --> 00:42:23,339
I mean are you asking Lee are you asking

1040
00:42:29,210 --> 00:42:26,700
all of us here just so I mean if I would

1041
00:42:32,089 --> 00:42:29,220
I can simplify it for myself which is

1042
00:42:33,410 --> 00:42:32,099
there's two ways to look at this

1043
00:42:34,790 --> 00:42:33,420
um

1044
00:42:45,770 --> 00:42:34,800
for me

1045
00:42:47,950 --> 00:42:45,780
know everything's created from mind or

1046
00:42:54,050 --> 00:42:51,829
I mean or it's just Consciousness isn't

1047
00:42:56,030 --> 00:42:54,060
doesn't even exist it's it's a it's

1048
00:42:58,490 --> 00:42:56,040
illusionism it's it's

1049
00:43:00,050 --> 00:42:58,500
um it's a byproduct of biology I don't

1050
00:43:02,210 --> 00:43:00,060
believe that but I think that those are

1051
00:43:05,390 --> 00:43:02,220
the two schools of if you if you listen

1052
00:43:08,210 --> 00:43:05,400
to most modern philosophers they

1053
00:43:10,370 --> 00:43:08,220
actually side with the second Camp more

1054
00:43:12,890 --> 00:43:10,380
which is what we experience as

1055
00:43:15,890 --> 00:43:12,900
Consciousness is kind of an illusion

1056
00:43:18,109 --> 00:43:15,900
it's a um it's kind of a model

1057
00:43:20,750 --> 00:43:18,119
that we're creating and we

1058
00:43:23,030 --> 00:43:20,760
um you know it's millions of little uh

1059
00:43:24,829 --> 00:43:23,040
subconscious decisions being made before

1060
00:43:28,130 --> 00:43:24,839
we even realize we're making a decision

1061
00:43:29,809 --> 00:43:28,140
that gives the appearance of we're you

1062
00:43:31,910 --> 00:43:29,819
know parsing through a problem in our

1063
00:43:34,190 --> 00:43:31,920
head with dialogue even though that has

1064
00:43:37,370 --> 00:43:34,200
been uh that's that's kind of that whole

1065
00:43:39,530 --> 00:43:37,380
like does Free Will exist or not I was I

1066
00:43:41,829 --> 00:43:39,540
was just making sure because I mean

1067
00:43:46,430 --> 00:43:41,839
Consciousness can be as simple as like

1068
00:43:49,130 --> 00:43:46,440
self-awareness and it is uh expansive as

1069
00:43:50,089 --> 00:43:49,140
like The Ether you know so I want to

1070
00:43:52,730 --> 00:43:50,099
make sure that's important too

1071
00:43:54,410 --> 00:43:52,740
self-awareness I think is a huge

1072
00:43:57,589 --> 00:43:54,420
um you know like when did we first look

1073
00:44:00,290 --> 00:43:57,599
into the lake uh um reflection and

1074
00:44:03,290 --> 00:44:00,300
notice ourselves or when did

1075
00:44:05,329 --> 00:44:03,300
um you know when did we start to notice

1076
00:44:06,890 --> 00:44:05,339
ourselves as a separate entity kind of a

1077
00:44:09,349 --> 00:44:06,900
thing I think that that's important I

1078
00:44:11,210 --> 00:44:09,359
think that is part of Consciousness

1079
00:44:14,450 --> 00:44:11,220
um but I think it's a part of it I mean

1080
00:44:16,309 --> 00:44:14,460
just even having my son who now who's

1081
00:44:18,349 --> 00:44:16,319
um over a year and a half and just him

1082
00:44:20,510 --> 00:44:18,359
looking in the mirror and you know just

1083
00:44:23,390 --> 00:44:20,520
watching that connection and that

1084
00:44:25,430 --> 00:44:23,400
interplay is very interesting and just

1085
00:44:26,809 --> 00:44:25,440
watching because you don't remember it

1086
00:44:28,250 --> 00:44:26,819
you know like growing up I don't

1087
00:44:30,109 --> 00:44:28,260
remember ever looking in the mirror when

1088
00:44:31,910 --> 00:44:30,119
I was a baby you're a kid or whatever

1089
00:44:35,089 --> 00:44:31,920
like that so

1090
00:44:37,670 --> 00:44:35,099
um what does that mean to what we are

1091
00:44:40,730 --> 00:44:37,680
and what we're doing and there's a great

1092
00:44:42,349 --> 00:44:40,740
documentary I think it's on Hulu or

1093
00:44:44,450 --> 00:44:42,359
maybe Netflix I don't know it's a it's

1094
00:44:46,849 --> 00:44:44,460
the guy that did my octopus teacher but

1095
00:44:48,290 --> 00:44:46,859
he follows around chimps

1096
00:44:50,210 --> 00:44:48,300
um I recommend that that's actually

1097
00:44:51,829 --> 00:44:50,220
pretty interesting

1098
00:44:53,150 --> 00:44:51,839
um but yeah just just looking at all

1099
00:44:54,710 --> 00:44:53,160
that stuff kind of like what is

1100
00:44:56,690 --> 00:44:54,720
consciousness why are we so different

1101
00:44:58,430 --> 00:44:56,700
what separates us from the Animal

1102
00:44:59,809 --> 00:44:58,440
Kingdom and the way that we perceive

1103
00:45:02,450 --> 00:44:59,819
ourselves to be separate from the Animal

1104
00:45:05,210 --> 00:45:02,460
Kingdom and things like that stuff I

1105
00:45:07,490 --> 00:45:05,220
don't have a real firm definition on it

1106
00:45:09,710 --> 00:45:07,500
I mean I would say it's the capacity for

1107
00:45:13,790 --> 00:45:09,720
self-reflection and symbolic thought but

1108
00:45:18,050 --> 00:45:13,800
I don't have a stance on mind versus

1109
00:45:20,809 --> 00:45:18,060
matter that's real firm I I tend on an

1110
00:45:23,210 --> 00:45:20,819
intuitive level I do believe that there

1111
00:45:24,410 --> 00:45:23,220
is a reality a physical reality that

1112
00:45:26,809 --> 00:45:24,420
exists

1113
00:45:29,390 --> 00:45:26,819
regardless of whether we're here or not

1114
00:45:31,430 --> 00:45:29,400
but I also realized that the reality

1115
00:45:33,530 --> 00:45:31,440
that we live in is sort of governed by

1116
00:45:36,710 --> 00:45:33,540
our ability to perceive and process it

1117
00:45:38,809 --> 00:45:36,720
so those are better on the filters to

1118
00:45:40,250 --> 00:45:38,819
that we're using I don't want to see I

1119
00:45:41,630 --> 00:45:40,260
don't want to see radio waves that would

1120
00:45:46,069 --> 00:45:41,640
make it really hard to go downstairs and

1121
00:45:49,490 --> 00:45:48,050
Consciousness is being

1122
00:45:51,470 --> 00:45:49,500
did a highly

1123
00:45:53,630 --> 00:45:51,480
um contextual fashion right like I think

1124
00:45:55,790 --> 00:45:53,640
of just the sort of immediate

1125
00:45:57,710 --> 00:45:55,800
materialist consciousness of I'm awake

1126
00:45:59,809 --> 00:45:57,720
and experiencing my environment in a way

1127
00:46:02,210 --> 00:45:59,819
that feels conscious to me like it was

1128
00:46:04,609 --> 00:46:02,220
deliberate and intentional versus you

1129
00:46:07,430 --> 00:46:04,619
know an academy instead or an anesthesia

1130
00:46:10,190 --> 00:46:07,440
or in sleep this feels um less like a

1131
00:46:13,370 --> 00:46:10,200
deliberate intentional experience

1132
00:46:15,470 --> 00:46:13,380
um but so I but I think the the way I

1133
00:46:17,870 --> 00:46:15,480
think of it is almost like a Cartesian

1134
00:46:22,069 --> 00:46:17,880
plane like like there's four quadrants

1135
00:46:23,569 --> 00:46:22,079
like one quadrant is individual uh

1136
00:46:26,329 --> 00:46:23,579
Consciousness is an individual

1137
00:46:28,430 --> 00:46:26,339
experience and it is strictly an

1138
00:46:29,870 --> 00:46:28,440
interpretation of material surroundings

1139
00:46:32,030 --> 00:46:29,880
and the material surroundings are

1140
00:46:35,329 --> 00:46:32,040
reality and there's like individual

1141
00:46:37,790 --> 00:46:35,339
experience Consciousness is individual

1142
00:46:40,010 --> 00:46:37,800
um but it's ideal it's idealism it's our

1143
00:46:41,990 --> 00:46:40,020
brain reconstructing like this is like

1144
00:46:44,750 --> 00:46:42,000
what Donald Hoffman talks about like

1145
00:46:47,270 --> 00:46:44,760
what we see and engage with the quality

1146
00:46:48,890 --> 00:46:47,280
of we experience is really like an

1147
00:46:50,510 --> 00:46:48,900
interface the same more like a computer

1148
00:46:52,490 --> 00:46:50,520
screen as an interface with the

1149
00:46:54,710 --> 00:46:52,500
electronics of a computer

1150
00:46:55,490 --> 00:46:54,720
and then the other two quadrants would

1151
00:46:58,670 --> 00:46:55,500
be

1152
00:47:01,190 --> 00:46:58,680
um Consciousness is something that is

1153
00:47:03,050 --> 00:47:01,200
actually Collective and the idea of it

1154
00:47:05,510 --> 00:47:03,060
being an individual thing is just an

1155
00:47:07,150 --> 00:47:05,520
artifact of like our mental processing

1156
00:47:09,530 --> 00:47:07,160
that Consciousness does not exist

1157
00:47:11,329 --> 00:47:09,540
internally it's something like a field

1158
00:47:13,730 --> 00:47:11,339
or it exists outside of ourselves and

1159
00:47:14,410 --> 00:47:13,740
you just sort of receive it

1160
00:47:17,030 --> 00:47:14,420
um

1161
00:47:19,250 --> 00:47:17,040
or uh there's this sort of same

1162
00:47:21,230 --> 00:47:19,260
Collective Consciousness that's idealism

1163
00:47:23,390 --> 00:47:21,240
as well that like we're all just kind of

1164
00:47:26,150 --> 00:47:23,400
collectively dreaming

1165
00:47:28,670 --> 00:47:26,160
um reality into existence or engaging

1166
00:47:29,870 --> 00:47:28,680
with this kind of interface that is but

1167
00:47:33,230 --> 00:47:29,880
a um

1168
00:47:35,210 --> 00:47:33,240
poor or abstract representation of what

1169
00:47:39,349 --> 00:47:35,220
is actually occurring

1170
00:47:41,390 --> 00:47:39,359
I mean like in a way I mean that that

1171
00:47:43,670 --> 00:47:41,400
the last thing you described is kind of

1172
00:47:46,370 --> 00:47:43,680
true when we look at things like UFOs

1173
00:47:48,349 --> 00:47:46,380
like myths things like that yeah right

1174
00:47:50,990 --> 00:47:48,359
yeah we all collectively dream same

1175
00:47:52,309 --> 00:47:51,000
things into into existence and Jay I

1176
00:47:53,870 --> 00:47:52,319
know I have asked you a million times

1177
00:47:57,050 --> 00:47:53,880
the term for this but it's this idea

1178
00:47:58,970 --> 00:47:57,060
that like you can seed importance or

1179
00:48:00,890 --> 00:47:58,980
value marketers do it all the time like

1180
00:48:02,270 --> 00:48:00,900
they basically try to artificially

1181
00:48:04,130 --> 00:48:02,280
generate

1182
00:48:05,870 --> 00:48:04,140
um like buzz around something with the

1183
00:48:08,030 --> 00:48:05,880
hopes that it catches on subsequently

1184
00:48:10,490 --> 00:48:08,040
with with people right like if you have

1185
00:48:13,670 --> 00:48:10,500
enough people yeah I mean that's it's a

1186
00:48:15,410 --> 00:48:13,680
real basic principle of advertising and

1187
00:48:18,530 --> 00:48:15,420
I actually though the thing that I look

1188
00:48:21,710 --> 00:48:18,540
at it was a real good example of it

1189
00:48:24,109 --> 00:48:21,720
um was VR glasses like back a couple

1190
00:48:27,410 --> 00:48:24,119
years ago and I know that's kind of

1191
00:48:30,290 --> 00:48:27,420
still hanging on no but like um right

1192
00:48:32,450 --> 00:48:30,300
now Google Glass the ones that you could

1193
00:48:34,250 --> 00:48:32,460
put all of the ones that you could put a

1194
00:48:35,450 --> 00:48:34,260
phone in you like snap it on and put it

1195
00:48:37,790 --> 00:48:35,460
oh yeah yeah I know what you're talking

1196
00:48:39,890 --> 00:48:37,800
about right because like we marketed

1197
00:48:41,930 --> 00:48:39,900
those not we but like the advertising

1198
00:48:43,730 --> 00:48:41,940
industry marketed those as they were

1199
00:48:47,390 --> 00:48:43,740
like the Christmas gift you had to get

1200
00:48:50,329 --> 00:48:47,400
and the process is sort of like you make

1201
00:48:52,609 --> 00:48:50,339
the perception of reality soft where you

1202
00:48:55,250 --> 00:48:52,619
you're like okay this is a valuable

1203
00:48:57,890 --> 00:48:55,260
thing and you want it and then reality

1204
00:49:00,770 --> 00:48:57,900
kind of hardens up again later after

1205
00:49:02,510 --> 00:49:00,780
that effect has happened now

1206
00:49:04,370 --> 00:49:02,520
um I do think this is again though to me

1207
00:49:08,210 --> 00:49:04,380
why there is like sort of a baseline

1208
00:49:09,770 --> 00:49:08,220
reality because those sucked and nobody

1209
00:49:11,390 --> 00:49:09,780
and they're like a thing that exists

1210
00:49:13,490 --> 00:49:11,400
they're re-gifted and then they're in

1211
00:49:15,609 --> 00:49:13,500
everybody's closet on like the top shelf

1212
00:49:20,450 --> 00:49:15,619
in the back

1213
00:49:22,670 --> 00:49:20,460
like yeah you can't like

1214
00:49:24,230 --> 00:49:22,680
you can convince everybody to buy them

1215
00:49:25,849 --> 00:49:24,240
and think they're good for a while but

1216
00:49:28,130 --> 00:49:25,859
if they're not actually good and fun to

1217
00:49:29,870 --> 00:49:28,140
use and like a cool thing then they

1218
00:49:31,790 --> 00:49:29,880
don't then they don't take in and I

1219
00:49:33,770 --> 00:49:31,800
think you know again like that like

1220
00:49:35,450 --> 00:49:33,780
everything we've seen in Tech we're in

1221
00:49:38,270 --> 00:49:35,460
this like terrible cycle of tech Ox

1222
00:49:39,770 --> 00:49:38,280
tourism where we had

1223
00:49:43,849 --> 00:49:39,780
um

1224
00:49:48,230 --> 00:49:43,859
blockchain crypto nfts then we had like

1225
00:49:51,170 --> 00:49:48,240
Trends VR AR you know the metaverse and

1226
00:49:54,550 --> 00:49:51,180
now we're in now we're in AI as the

1227
00:49:58,190 --> 00:49:54,560
language model thing and

1228
00:50:01,069 --> 00:49:58,200
I again I also say that like Baseline

1229
00:50:03,170 --> 00:50:01,079
reality has to exist because we're not

1230
00:50:05,569 --> 00:50:03,180
all like why do we all decide to dream

1231
00:50:10,270 --> 00:50:05,579
this like what I got what do I got hands

1232
00:50:13,309 --> 00:50:10,280
like you know what I mean I I say that

1233
00:50:14,809 --> 00:50:13,319
about that the collective dream sucks

1234
00:50:17,870 --> 00:50:14,819
um but

1235
00:50:22,069 --> 00:50:17,880
no there's I mean there's a lot of like

1236
00:50:28,490 --> 00:50:24,290
a lot of uh

1237
00:50:30,230 --> 00:50:28,500
ways we can shape perception like in the

1238
00:50:32,750 --> 00:50:30,240
in the

1239
00:50:34,790 --> 00:50:32,760
um short term with those like

1240
00:50:36,589 --> 00:50:34,800
psychological techniques that advertise

1241
00:50:38,390 --> 00:50:36,599
and uses

1242
00:50:41,270 --> 00:50:38,400
um and a lot of them are very like it's

1243
00:50:42,589 --> 00:50:41,280
very easy it's very Elementary stuff but

1244
00:50:45,589 --> 00:50:42,599
um

1245
00:50:48,230 --> 00:50:45,599
the whole uh process still there has to

1246
00:50:50,990 --> 00:50:48,240
be some substance in the end

1247
00:50:52,670 --> 00:50:51,000
and even if the substance is we all

1248
00:50:54,230 --> 00:50:52,680
convinced

1249
00:50:57,730 --> 00:50:54,240
um we all convince you to do this

1250
00:50:59,510 --> 00:50:57,740
because like we all believe in it

1251
00:51:03,230 --> 00:50:59,520
product-based stuff is a little bit

1252
00:51:04,010 --> 00:51:03,240
tricky like that because we can still

1253
00:51:05,990 --> 00:51:04,020
um

1254
00:51:09,190 --> 00:51:06,000
market products based on like personal

1255
00:51:16,309 --> 00:51:13,190
Graphics excuse me you know but um yeah

1256
00:51:19,130 --> 00:51:16,319
these are all those fads I mean even the

1257
00:51:20,750 --> 00:51:19,140
AI thing like it's a chat bot it's

1258
00:51:22,549 --> 00:51:20,760
literally curating things from the

1259
00:51:25,309 --> 00:51:22,559
Internet it's not even thinking like

1260
00:51:26,710 --> 00:51:25,319
people are really just not aware of what

1261
00:51:29,390 --> 00:51:26,720
these things

1262
00:51:30,950 --> 00:51:29,400
there's a lot of dunning-kruger stuff

1263
00:51:33,549 --> 00:51:30,960
going on with AI I can't tell you what's

1264
00:51:35,950 --> 00:51:33,559
more interesting Quantum Computing

1265
00:51:38,809 --> 00:51:35,960
is fascinating

1266
00:51:40,849 --> 00:51:38,819
yeah I mean the I think the thing you're

1267
00:51:42,530 --> 00:51:40,859
talking about Leah is psychic driving

1268
00:51:44,329 --> 00:51:42,540
where we just yeah that's what I was

1269
00:51:46,190 --> 00:51:44,339
thinking of you just exposed me to the

1270
00:51:48,290 --> 00:51:46,200
message to the point where you're like I

1271
00:51:50,510 --> 00:51:48,300
cave and I believe this like I no longer

1272
00:51:53,030 --> 00:51:50,520
like question it and I'm buying my I'm

1273
00:51:55,370 --> 00:51:53,040
buying my 90

1274
00:51:56,690 --> 00:51:55,380
um VR glasses that I can stick my iPhone

1275
00:51:57,530 --> 00:51:56,700
in

1276
00:52:00,770 --> 00:51:57,540
um

1277
00:52:01,849 --> 00:52:00,780
yeah I think at the core two of psychic

1278
00:52:04,010 --> 00:52:01,859
driving

1279
00:52:08,329 --> 00:52:04,020
um I mean this shows up a lot in like

1280
00:52:10,790 --> 00:52:08,339
taste but taste is acquired by exposure

1281
00:52:12,950 --> 00:52:10,800
so what I mean by this is that if you're

1282
00:52:16,549 --> 00:52:12,960
repeatedly exposed to something like a

1283
00:52:18,290 --> 00:52:16,559
food or a drink or an experience even if

1284
00:52:19,549 --> 00:52:18,300
you don't like it initially after you've

1285
00:52:21,410 --> 00:52:19,559
been exposed to the number of times

1286
00:52:23,930 --> 00:52:21,420
pretty frequently if you don't become

1287
00:52:25,430 --> 00:52:23,940
ambivalent you'll actually like it right

1288
00:52:26,930 --> 00:52:25,440
like this is like how people learn to

1289
00:52:28,730 --> 00:52:26,940
develop a taste for things like black

1290
00:52:30,890 --> 00:52:28,740
coffee nobody really likes black coffee

1291
00:52:33,230 --> 00:52:30,900
at the start but you just kind of make a

1292
00:52:34,910 --> 00:52:33,240
deliberate decision because you know you

1293
00:52:36,710 --> 00:52:34,920
like how it makes you feel you like the

1294
00:52:55,750 --> 00:52:36,720
rituals like all the [\h__\h] that like

1295
00:53:03,530 --> 00:53:00,230
other than that yes nah get lost

1296
00:53:06,170 --> 00:53:03,540
well I did read Nick unfortunately and I

1297
00:53:08,630 --> 00:53:06,180
this is me too that on people with more

1298
00:53:11,390 --> 00:53:08,640
sociopathic personality traits enjoy

1299
00:53:14,089 --> 00:53:11,400
bitter flavors more

1300
00:53:17,809 --> 00:53:14,099
um yeah on a genetic level this is me

1301
00:53:19,670 --> 00:53:17,819
too like some people really do like that

1302
00:53:22,430 --> 00:53:19,680
stuff but I know what you mean it's the

1303
00:53:25,849 --> 00:53:22,440
if our society didn't

1304
00:53:30,710 --> 00:53:25,859
um okay I do think that like at a

1305
00:53:33,290 --> 00:53:30,720
certain point like alcohol has value

1306
00:53:35,569 --> 00:53:33,300
um because it lets us like

1307
00:53:36,890 --> 00:53:35,579
let people survive

1308
00:53:40,210 --> 00:53:36,900
um

1309
00:53:43,069 --> 00:53:40,220
Bad drinking water in certain situations

1310
00:53:45,230 --> 00:53:43,079
it also is not like

1311
00:53:48,170 --> 00:53:45,240
um it's the payoff like alcohol may

1312
00:53:51,049 --> 00:53:48,180
taste bad being intoxicated it's fun and

1313
00:53:51,950 --> 00:53:51,059
stuff right yeah yeah and I think that

1314
00:53:53,030 --> 00:53:51,960
that

1315
00:53:56,270 --> 00:53:53,040
um

1316
00:53:57,650 --> 00:53:56,280
like that seems to be like the

1317
00:54:04,549 --> 00:53:57,660
um

1318
00:54:05,870 --> 00:54:04,559
trying to say that's society is

1319
00:54:08,270 --> 00:54:05,880
interesting do you think it's because

1320
00:54:09,829 --> 00:54:08,280
they they believe they can convince

1321
00:54:11,210 --> 00:54:09,839
themselves that they like something that

1322
00:54:13,670 --> 00:54:11,220
they don't like because there's right

1323
00:54:16,849 --> 00:54:13,680
there I think it might be genetic on the

1324
00:54:19,130 --> 00:54:16,859
level of the um like the cilantro Gene

1325
00:54:21,530 --> 00:54:19,140
yeah it's just like oh by the way like

1326
00:54:23,630 --> 00:54:21,540
if you have if you genetically whatever

1327
00:54:25,970 --> 00:54:23,640
your brain structure is or whatever

1328
00:54:29,630 --> 00:54:25,980
governs this chemical balance leads you

1329
00:54:32,390 --> 00:54:29,640
towards that you also are like I like

1330
00:54:34,849 --> 00:54:32,400
bitter like I like it like I don't I

1331
00:54:38,750 --> 00:54:34,859
don't know on that but a lot of the

1332
00:54:41,510 --> 00:54:38,760
things we do I think like a societal

1333
00:54:43,670 --> 00:54:41,520
ritual enforces it drinking is a really

1334
00:54:47,510 --> 00:54:43,680
good example like yeah like drinking

1335
00:54:49,670 --> 00:54:47,520
also has value because it's like I have

1336
00:54:52,010 --> 00:54:49,680
to go like bond with my co-workers over

1337
00:54:54,230 --> 00:54:52,020
thanks and if I don't this is actually

1338
00:54:57,490 --> 00:54:54,240
something I have experienced like being

1339
00:55:00,230 --> 00:54:57,500
ostracized by the office speakers

1340
00:55:02,950 --> 00:55:00,240
yeah I'm like I don't know I'm just like

1341
00:55:05,510 --> 00:55:02,960
any anything else I'll do but alcohol

1342
00:55:07,490 --> 00:55:05,520
like I'll I'll have a couple cocktails

1343
00:55:11,809 --> 00:55:07,500
uh every now and then I love the feeling

1344
00:55:15,370 --> 00:55:11,819
of having a couple beers but the anxiety

1345
00:55:21,470 --> 00:55:17,930
one of the things that's interesting to

1346
00:55:24,049 --> 00:55:21,480
to me about you though is your approach

1347
00:55:27,589 --> 00:55:24,059
to the the psychonaut experience and the

1348
00:55:31,150 --> 00:55:27,599
drug experience because I issued a lot

1349
00:55:34,370 --> 00:55:31,160
of this as a kid like when I was young

1350
00:55:36,410 --> 00:55:34,380
I was 21. yeah but a lot of it was

1351
00:55:39,349 --> 00:55:36,420
available was just like of questionable

1352
00:55:41,930 --> 00:55:39,359
provenance and like effect you know like

1353
00:55:46,990 --> 00:55:41,940
you really got get like LSD from some

1354
00:55:49,430 --> 00:55:47,000
random guy is it like any good or yeah

1355
00:55:52,010 --> 00:55:49,440
that's the wrong crowd I think that's

1356
00:55:54,530 --> 00:55:52,020
actually not imagine having an intense

1357
00:55:56,390 --> 00:55:54,540
psychedelic experience before like I'd

1358
00:55:59,270 --> 00:55:56,400
come into adulthood in a substantial

1359
00:56:01,549 --> 00:55:59,280
fashion like the idea to me of like

1360
00:56:05,750 --> 00:56:01,559
having a major souse I'm experience at

1361
00:56:07,190 --> 00:56:05,760
like 17 it horrifies me in a lot of

1362
00:56:08,930 --> 00:56:07,200
different ways and that's I'm not saying

1363
00:56:10,910 --> 00:56:08,940
that to confer judgment on anyone oh no

1364
00:56:12,589 --> 00:56:10,920
I didn't get it I was always very

1365
00:56:15,490 --> 00:56:12,599
interested yeah I was I mean I've been

1366
00:56:18,109 --> 00:56:15,500
doing this [\h__\h] since I was 13.

1367
00:56:20,510 --> 00:56:18,119
no but I I didn't smoke pot until I was

1368
00:56:22,250 --> 00:56:20,520
21. I mean I was ROTC I didn't give up

1369
00:56:24,109 --> 00:56:22,260
in my dream of being an astronaut until

1370
00:56:26,030 --> 00:56:24,119
I was literally 20 years old like I went

1371
00:56:28,549 --> 00:56:26,040
to engineering school I was ROTC on a

1372
00:56:31,030 --> 00:56:28,559
scholarship the whole thing

1373
00:56:33,290 --> 00:56:31,040
um so for me it's it's almost

1374
00:56:36,710 --> 00:56:33,300
inextricably connected to spiritual

1375
00:56:39,109 --> 00:56:36,720
practice and like self-work and

1376
00:56:41,030 --> 00:56:39,119
transpersonal experience it's never been

1377
00:56:43,190 --> 00:56:41,040
in the realm of recreational experience

1378
00:56:45,290 --> 00:56:43,200
for me um and I see like when I talk

1379
00:56:47,030 --> 00:56:45,300
about this it's not with judgment like I

1380
00:56:49,130 --> 00:56:47,040
know people use these as tools all the

1381
00:56:50,870 --> 00:56:49,140
time in different ways

1382
00:56:53,210 --> 00:56:50,880
um but the other thing I was going to

1383
00:56:55,309 --> 00:56:53,220
say going back to tastes I have a lot of

1384
00:56:57,710 --> 00:56:55,319
tastes or proclivities towards like

1385
00:57:00,349 --> 00:56:57,720
serious acquired taste things like I

1386
00:57:02,450 --> 00:57:00,359
love salted black licorice I love um

1387
00:57:04,910 --> 00:57:02,460
Marmite mermaid's one of my favorite

1388
00:57:06,770 --> 00:57:04,920
things I love really hoppy uh not

1389
00:57:09,530 --> 00:57:06,780
necessarily beers but like hop teas I

1390
00:57:11,150 --> 00:57:09,540
like bitter and like herbal things and I

1391
00:57:13,730 --> 00:57:11,160
mentally always connect it to being

1392
00:57:15,290 --> 00:57:13,740
really into type 2 fun which

1393
00:57:17,329 --> 00:57:15,300
it's like shorthand for being like I

1394
00:57:19,190 --> 00:57:17,339
[\h__\h] love to suffer right like I love

1395
00:57:21,049 --> 00:57:19,200
to backpack in the woods and not shower

1396
00:57:23,690 --> 00:57:21,059
for a week I like you know I like hard

1397
00:57:25,549 --> 00:57:23,700
workouts like right yeah I know this is

1398
00:57:27,290 --> 00:57:25,559
this is deranged [\h__\h] and that's also

1399
00:57:30,049 --> 00:57:27,300
why I like salted black licorice that

1400
00:57:32,950 --> 00:57:30,059
smells like a cat box but the rest of

1401
00:57:35,630 --> 00:57:32,960
that's unhinged yeah no I know

1402
00:57:38,450 --> 00:57:35,640
I know I don't think it's I don't think

1403
00:57:40,190 --> 00:57:38,460
it's unhinged um you're I don't know if

1404
00:57:42,650 --> 00:57:40,200
your whole life was like that or you're

1405
00:57:44,930 --> 00:57:42,660
balancing out

1406
00:57:46,370 --> 00:57:44,940
uh no I've always been like this I've

1407
00:57:48,049 --> 00:57:46,380
always been like and it's weird because

1408
00:57:49,609 --> 00:57:48,059
I'm not competitive I'm really not type

1409
00:57:51,470 --> 00:57:49,619
A

1410
00:57:53,690 --> 00:57:51,480
um I just like

1411
00:57:56,270 --> 00:57:53,700
intense [\h__\h] I like intensity that's

1412
00:57:58,130 --> 00:57:56,280
really what it is hmm

1413
00:57:59,630 --> 00:57:58,140
um so

1414
00:58:05,150 --> 00:57:59,640
spicy food

1415
00:58:06,890 --> 00:58:05,160
spicy not like Blast Furnace spicy but

1416
00:58:09,170 --> 00:58:06,900
like complex spicy like what you see in

1417
00:58:10,970 --> 00:58:09,180
Szechuan cooking like I want like little

1418
00:58:13,609 --> 00:58:10,980
beads of sweat to form up my hairline

1419
00:58:18,230 --> 00:58:13,619
you know this is though okay so taking

1420
00:58:21,730 --> 00:58:18,240
this back right now to our discussion

1421
00:58:23,990 --> 00:58:21,740
the nature of Consciousness we are very

1422
00:58:26,089 --> 00:58:24,000
this is one of the things I think about

1423
00:58:27,410 --> 00:58:26,099
a lot with this we're very when we we're

1424
00:58:30,049 --> 00:58:27,420
having these interactions like we're

1425
00:58:33,410 --> 00:58:30,059
very um fragmented for lack of a better

1426
00:58:35,210 --> 00:58:33,420
way to put it like we really Express a

1427
00:58:39,289 --> 00:58:35,220
wide

1428
00:58:41,690 --> 00:58:39,299
and experience

1429
00:58:42,470 --> 00:58:41,700
which again I don't know

1430
00:58:48,650 --> 00:58:42,480
um

1431
00:58:51,170 --> 00:58:48,660
it's difficult for me I guess there's a

1432
00:58:54,710 --> 00:58:51,180
limit of my imagination to imagine

1433
00:58:57,470 --> 00:58:54,720
um a collective mind fragmenting itself

1434
00:59:00,470 --> 00:58:57,480
into like you know it's like it's like

1435
00:59:02,150 --> 00:59:00,480
we're all little mandelbrot sets kind of

1436
00:59:04,549 --> 00:59:02,160
forming out and forming into these

1437
00:59:05,750 --> 00:59:04,559
complex shapes and disintegrating I

1438
00:59:08,510 --> 00:59:05,760
don't know it's

1439
00:59:10,609 --> 00:59:08,520
um it's difficult for me to conceive of

1440
00:59:13,490 --> 00:59:10,619
that like I think

1441
00:59:15,109 --> 00:59:13,500
um again though I I feel like one of the

1442
00:59:17,150 --> 00:59:15,119
one of the things that I hear I've not

1443
00:59:19,910 --> 00:59:17,160
experienced this but here repeatedly is

1444
00:59:21,650 --> 00:59:19,920
you know the higher what we what we call

1445
00:59:23,690 --> 00:59:21,660
in the vernacular like the higher stages

1446
00:59:25,849 --> 00:59:23,700
of con of Consciousness you feel that

1447
00:59:29,150 --> 00:59:25,859
like Oneness and connection yeah

1448
00:59:31,849 --> 00:59:29,160
non-duality yeah and it's like we're

1449
00:59:34,690 --> 00:59:31,859
have you guys had the non-duality is it

1450
00:59:37,490 --> 00:59:34,700
as good as the black licorice yes

1451
00:59:39,109 --> 00:59:37,500
I hate black conquerors so anything can

1452
00:59:42,289 --> 00:59:39,119
beat that but

1453
00:59:43,910 --> 00:59:42,299
um yeah all you Jagermeister lovers all

1454
00:59:44,630 --> 00:59:43,920
that shit's nasty

1455
00:59:47,329 --> 00:59:44,640
um

1456
00:59:49,910 --> 00:59:47,339
Jaeger uh I do like I like the

1457
00:59:53,870 --> 00:59:49,920
Jagermeister so what about malort

1458
00:59:55,490 --> 00:59:53,880
three years ago I had a psilocybin

1459
00:59:57,589 --> 00:59:55,500
experience

1460
01:00:00,289 --> 00:59:57,599
where

1461
01:00:01,849 --> 01:00:00,299
so you know how have you ever tripped

1462
01:00:04,430 --> 01:00:01,859
and looked at a part of your body where

1463
01:00:06,890 --> 01:00:04,440
you it felt like it was like

1464
01:00:08,390 --> 01:00:06,900
disconnected

1465
01:00:09,950 --> 01:00:08,400
um yeah like look at your hand and like

1466
01:00:12,049 --> 01:00:09,960
oh is this even part of me or something

1467
01:00:14,329 --> 01:00:12,059
like that like that's actually does this

1468
01:00:17,210 --> 01:00:14,339
write this Association

1469
01:00:18,829 --> 01:00:17,220
um so I had the opposite effect where I

1470
01:00:20,270 --> 01:00:18,839
felt like I was part of every like I

1471
01:00:23,150 --> 01:00:20,280
felt like I was connected to everything

1472
01:00:25,549 --> 01:00:23,160
and I couldn't understand how no like in

1473
01:00:30,710 --> 01:00:25,559
that moment how nobody else could feel

1474
01:00:32,750 --> 01:00:30,720
that or ever knew that that we we are so

1475
01:00:34,670 --> 01:00:32,760
I don't know how to explain it it's it's

1476
01:00:36,470 --> 01:00:34,680
like I said it's it would be like

1477
01:00:39,230 --> 01:00:36,480
feeling like

1478
01:00:40,910 --> 01:00:39,240
missing something but it's all there

1479
01:00:43,190 --> 01:00:40,920
it's really hard to explain I can't

1480
01:00:44,809 --> 01:00:43,200
really I mean that's why they say it's

1481
01:00:47,210 --> 01:00:44,819
like ineffable or you can't really

1482
01:00:48,770 --> 01:00:47,220
describe psychedelic experiences but

1483
01:00:50,569 --> 01:00:48,780
that was the experience that I was just

1484
01:00:53,270 --> 01:00:50,579
connected to everything and it was so

1485
01:00:55,370 --> 01:00:53,280
obvious at the time and so

1486
01:00:57,410 --> 01:00:55,380
um groundbreaking in my own mind and

1487
01:01:01,730 --> 01:00:57,420
maybe that's an illusion too you know

1488
01:01:05,089 --> 01:01:01,740
I'm open to that but it felt real and

1489
01:01:08,270 --> 01:01:05,099
um even afterwards I could see

1490
01:01:10,010 --> 01:01:08,280
um what I was thinking that I felt I

1491
01:01:12,349 --> 01:01:10,020
don't know I just felt like

1492
01:01:14,150 --> 01:01:12,359
more at peace about things after that

1493
01:01:17,809 --> 01:01:14,160
experience but yeah I mean in terms of

1494
01:01:19,849 --> 01:01:17,819
the non-duality I felt that before but

1495
01:01:22,190 --> 01:01:19,859
um I also wonder about creativity a lot

1496
01:01:24,349 --> 01:01:22,200
too and individuality and can we

1497
01:01:26,569 --> 01:01:24,359
separate ourselves from

1498
01:01:28,549 --> 01:01:26,579
this one thing or this greater thing

1499
01:01:30,770 --> 01:01:28,559
because I don't think anything truly is

1500
01:01:32,329 --> 01:01:30,780
original music's not original especially

1501
01:01:35,510 --> 01:01:32,339
now

1502
01:01:37,010 --> 01:01:35,520
um you look at content it's not original

1503
01:01:38,930 --> 01:01:37,020
um whether we're talking about UFO

1504
01:01:40,370 --> 01:01:38,940
Twitter or posting or whatever it's

1505
01:01:42,109 --> 01:01:40,380
everybody posts the same [\h__\h] everybody

1506
01:01:43,150 --> 01:01:42,119
repeats off of each other everybody's

1507
01:01:45,770 --> 01:01:43,160
basically

1508
01:01:47,930 --> 01:01:45,780
yeah all the communication mediums we

1509
01:01:50,150 --> 01:01:47,940
use basically incentivize this

1510
01:01:54,109 --> 01:01:50,160
convergence towards one way to speak one

1511
01:01:57,349 --> 01:01:54,119
way to communicate one way to think well

1512
01:01:59,270 --> 01:01:57,359
Human Society though regardless of the

1513
01:02:02,950 --> 01:01:59,280
socio-political context is always

1514
01:02:06,650 --> 01:02:02,960
organized itself like that like you have

1515
01:02:08,870 --> 01:02:06,660
like we you know like in a capitalist

1516
01:02:10,549 --> 01:02:08,880
Society you got to go with what pays

1517
01:02:12,650 --> 01:02:10,559
bills like what's the you got to make

1518
01:02:15,289 --> 01:02:12,660
the content that's gonna connect this is

1519
01:02:17,870 --> 01:02:15,299
a uh this is actually something I when I

1520
01:02:20,690 --> 01:02:17,880
teach graphic design I try to explain

1521
01:02:22,910 --> 01:02:20,700
this to my students that a lot of people

1522
01:02:25,309 --> 01:02:22,920
make the mistake of pursuing a creative

1523
01:02:27,049 --> 01:02:25,319
career Creative Education

1524
01:02:30,170 --> 01:02:27,059
um in the in the idea that there's

1525
01:02:31,789 --> 01:02:30,180
personal fulfillment to be had and that

1526
01:02:33,829 --> 01:02:31,799
personal fulfillment is actually going

1527
01:02:35,410 --> 01:02:33,839
to come because somehow they're going to

1528
01:02:38,690 --> 01:02:35,420
get paid to express themselves

1529
01:02:39,890 --> 01:02:38,700
creatively on an individual level and

1530
01:02:41,870 --> 01:02:39,900
people are going to pay for that I'm

1531
01:02:44,150 --> 01:02:41,880
like that only happens to like 10 people

1532
01:02:46,910 --> 01:02:44,160
uh there's like 10 people every decade

1533
01:02:49,010 --> 01:02:46,920
and usually it's an easy like I say the

1534
01:02:50,630 --> 01:02:49,020
easy mode the guy I always point out to

1535
01:02:53,270 --> 01:02:50,640
is

1536
01:02:55,670 --> 01:02:53,280
um coupe the the alternative rock art

1537
01:02:58,490 --> 01:02:55,680
guy who was really big poster artists in

1538
01:03:00,710 --> 01:02:58,500
the 90s the zaftig devil women

1539
01:03:03,370 --> 01:03:00,720
that's the guy oh yeah oh yeah that's

1540
01:03:06,609 --> 01:03:03,380
great okay yeah

1541
01:03:09,349 --> 01:03:06,619
but like the chicken but it's like

1542
01:03:11,150 --> 01:03:09,359
it's like an extremely Elemental like

1543
01:03:14,230 --> 01:03:11,160
it's like six cells there you go it's

1544
01:03:19,730 --> 01:03:17,690
I also though wonder I deeply wonder

1545
01:03:22,190 --> 01:03:19,740
about the creative lives of artists like

1546
01:03:23,690 --> 01:03:22,200
is that guy does he get up every day is

1547
01:03:25,670 --> 01:03:23,700
he still thrilled that after like 30

1548
01:03:28,789 --> 01:03:25,680
years he can do that like that's his

1549
01:03:31,250 --> 01:03:28,799
thing or is he like I have to like I

1550
01:03:32,210 --> 01:03:31,260
have like a child I have to pay with and

1551
01:03:34,069 --> 01:03:32,220
I'm gonna

1552
01:03:35,569 --> 01:03:34,079
um if I if it was just me I'd stick a

1553
01:03:37,970 --> 01:03:35,579
gun in my mouth before drawing another

1554
01:03:40,430 --> 01:03:37,980
Devil Woman but I got I gotta pay the

1555
01:03:42,349 --> 01:03:40,440
bills I mean as a musician I can tell

1556
01:03:44,089 --> 01:03:42,359
you people get sick of it people get

1557
01:03:46,010 --> 01:03:44,099
sick of playing the same songs I used to

1558
01:03:47,690 --> 01:03:46,020
get sick I mean I wasn't even out there

1559
01:03:49,910 --> 01:03:47,700
touring necessarily we were just playing

1560
01:03:52,309 --> 01:03:49,920
like local gigs around Chicago Detroit

1561
01:03:54,289 --> 01:03:52,319
whatever yeah I mean you get sick of

1562
01:03:56,210 --> 01:03:54,299
playing certain things and you just do

1563
01:03:59,569 --> 01:03:56,220
it because you feel like you have to or

1564
01:04:01,010 --> 01:03:59,579
whatever so um but my Point wasn't about

1565
01:04:03,230 --> 01:04:01,020
what you're talking about my point was

1566
01:04:05,750 --> 01:04:03,240
more along the line of Can You Feel

1567
01:04:08,930 --> 01:04:05,760
or figure out how to truly

1568
01:04:12,109 --> 01:04:08,940
be creative in the way that you like you

1569
01:04:14,210 --> 01:04:12,119
cut off the tie of that

1570
01:04:15,710 --> 01:04:14,220
um causal line that led you to the point

1571
01:04:17,569 --> 01:04:15,720
of where you're at and you're actually

1572
01:04:18,950 --> 01:04:17,579
like tell me something completely

1573
01:04:20,569 --> 01:04:18,960
original right now any one of you can

1574
01:04:23,030 --> 01:04:20,579
can you tell me something that you

1575
01:04:25,789 --> 01:04:23,040
thought of that's 100 original of

1576
01:04:27,349 --> 01:04:25,799
thought that you feel like you know

1577
01:04:30,710 --> 01:04:27,359
nobody else has ever thought about it

1578
01:04:32,630 --> 01:04:30,720
before paranormal championship wrestling

1579
01:04:34,130 --> 01:04:32,640
somebody's I guarantee you somebody's

1580
01:04:37,430 --> 01:04:34,140
thought about that yeah

1581
01:04:40,190 --> 01:04:37,440
okay I mean the other the one of the

1582
01:04:41,690 --> 01:04:40,200
things about creativity in that context

1583
01:04:43,849 --> 01:04:41,700
so this is

1584
01:04:46,490 --> 01:04:43,859
um have you read and I'm not going to be

1585
01:04:49,010 --> 01:04:46,500
able to say the guy's name because it's

1586
01:04:51,289 --> 01:04:49,020
it's tremendously long check name I

1587
01:04:57,490 --> 01:04:51,299
believe the the guy that was the the guy

1588
01:05:02,289 --> 01:05:01,250
it's actually Hungarian it's mihai

1589
01:05:04,730 --> 01:05:02,299
um

1590
01:05:05,690 --> 01:05:04,740
I'm looking at it right now and I can't

1591
01:05:07,250 --> 01:05:05,700
say it

1592
01:05:10,069 --> 01:05:07,260
she

1593
01:05:12,829 --> 01:05:10,079
just sent me high yeah it's Hungarian

1594
01:05:15,710 --> 01:05:12,839
she'll take me high so when shinsuke me

1595
01:05:17,930 --> 01:05:15,720
high craw talks about creativity he

1596
01:05:19,849 --> 01:05:17,940
argues that yeah there's very few people

1597
01:05:23,030 --> 01:05:19,859
like true creativity is original thought

1598
01:05:25,970 --> 01:05:23,040
processes and

1599
01:05:28,010 --> 01:05:25,980
um it's like those those breakthrough

1600
01:05:30,170 --> 01:05:28,020
moments that come for a select few

1601
01:05:32,990 --> 01:05:30,180
individuals that move our society

1602
01:05:34,670 --> 01:05:33,000
forward and one of the things that's

1603
01:05:36,770 --> 01:05:34,680
actually interesting to me about this

1604
01:05:38,390 --> 01:05:36,780
because I I really and he talks about

1605
01:05:40,069 --> 01:05:38,400
personal creativity like if you're

1606
01:05:40,910 --> 01:05:40,079
sitting in your like you're me and

1607
01:05:42,530 --> 01:05:40,920
you're sitting around you're like

1608
01:05:44,690 --> 01:05:42,540
Paranormal championship wrestling that's

1609
01:05:46,609 --> 01:05:44,700
a cool idea or you're working on an

1610
01:05:48,410 --> 01:05:46,619
individual piece that that's a personal

1611
01:05:51,109 --> 01:05:48,420
creativity is different what's

1612
01:05:53,089 --> 01:05:51,119
interesting to me though when he talks

1613
01:05:53,990 --> 01:05:53,099
about that is

1614
01:05:57,890 --> 01:05:54,000
um

1615
01:06:00,049 --> 01:05:57,900
there's a frequent level of like not

1616
01:06:02,210 --> 01:06:00,059
like it comes from within but it comes

1617
01:06:05,150 --> 01:06:02,220
from without or it's like the you know

1618
01:06:06,410 --> 01:06:05,160
the Divine spark or this

1619
01:06:09,829 --> 01:06:06,420
um connection to the higher

1620
01:06:12,950 --> 01:06:09,839
Consciousness yes although in my my

1621
01:06:15,049 --> 01:06:12,960
personal life like little like minor bit

1622
01:06:18,289 --> 01:06:15,059
of research writing and stuff that I

1623
01:06:20,569 --> 01:06:18,299
have done I also the relate

1624
01:06:23,510 --> 01:06:20,579
um the expression of personal creativity

1625
01:06:26,089 --> 01:06:23,520
when you're in that flow state to SCI

1626
01:06:28,010 --> 01:06:26,099
phenomena that is

1627
01:06:30,770 --> 01:06:28,020
um the dowsing reflex

1628
01:06:32,329 --> 01:06:30,780
yes oh this is I love when you talk

1629
01:06:33,829 --> 01:06:32,339
about there's definitely something there

1630
01:06:36,410 --> 01:06:33,839
all the time

1631
01:06:39,890 --> 01:06:36,420
um Mike I want to hear your thoughts on

1632
01:06:42,230 --> 01:06:39,900
where creativity comes from so

1633
01:06:44,450 --> 01:06:42,240
well I was just gonna say I mean I don't

1634
01:06:46,130 --> 01:06:44,460
from a waking or day-to-day

1635
01:06:48,049 --> 01:06:46,140
Consciousness State I don't think we can

1636
01:06:50,809 --> 01:06:48,059
achieve what you're talking about or if

1637
01:06:51,710 --> 01:06:50,819
they if people can it's very few

1638
01:06:53,690 --> 01:06:51,720
um or it's something you have to

1639
01:06:57,170 --> 01:06:53,700
cultivate throughout your whole life uh

1640
01:06:59,029 --> 01:06:57,180
to not do these predictive patterns that

1641
01:07:00,650 --> 01:06:59,039
everybody does

1642
01:07:04,430 --> 01:07:00,660
um

1643
01:07:06,170 --> 01:07:04,440
I have had again high-dose psilocybin

1644
01:07:09,109 --> 01:07:06,180
experience in the dark where I was shown

1645
01:07:11,569 --> 01:07:09,119
that that is the realm of creativity and

1646
01:07:13,609 --> 01:07:11,579
things can be pulled from that realm and

1647
01:07:15,529 --> 01:07:13,619
brought into this realm if you know what

1648
01:07:16,670 --> 01:07:15,539
you're doing most people as you

1649
01:07:18,289 --> 01:07:16,680
mentioned will take these things

1650
01:07:19,490 --> 01:07:18,299
recreationally they won't think twice

1651
01:07:21,589 --> 01:07:19,500
about it I'm sure a lot of those people

1652
01:07:23,390 --> 01:07:21,599
have had amazing breakthroughs or

1653
01:07:24,890 --> 01:07:23,400
amazing experiences they just don't know

1654
01:07:27,529 --> 01:07:24,900
what to do with it or they don't have

1655
01:07:31,010 --> 01:07:27,539
the tools or the faculties to

1656
01:07:33,230 --> 01:07:31,020
facilitate a way to you know come up or

1657
01:07:36,109 --> 01:07:33,240
you know actually make that invention or

1658
01:07:37,970 --> 01:07:36,119
write that song or whatever the case may

1659
01:07:40,250 --> 01:07:37,980
be so

1660
01:07:43,190 --> 01:07:40,260
um I'm not advocating that everybody

1661
01:07:45,170 --> 01:07:43,200
does psychedelics but I do think it is

1662
01:07:47,029 --> 01:07:45,180
one of the best tools we have to get

1663
01:07:51,529 --> 01:07:47,039
outside of our own Consciousness and our

1664
01:07:54,950 --> 01:07:51,539
own way and peer Beyond the Veil and see

1665
01:07:57,230 --> 01:07:54,960
um what potentially doors could open up

1666
01:07:58,549 --> 01:07:57,240
um that you know we're at a standstill

1667
01:08:00,950 --> 01:07:58,559
right now we're at a standstill in

1668
01:08:03,650 --> 01:08:00,960
physics we're at standstill

1669
01:08:05,089 --> 01:08:03,660
um you know in medicine in a lot of ways

1670
01:08:06,950 --> 01:08:05,099
and even though there's breakthroughs in

1671
01:08:09,289 --> 01:08:06,960
these these fields and things like that

1672
01:08:11,510 --> 01:08:09,299
it's it's very slow compared to our

1673
01:08:12,529 --> 01:08:11,520
technology and I feel like this is

1674
01:08:15,289 --> 01:08:12,539
dangerous because I feel like we're

1675
01:08:18,110 --> 01:08:15,299
entering a phase where technology is

1676
01:08:20,090 --> 01:08:18,120
expanding exponentially and our biology

1677
01:08:21,530 --> 01:08:20,100
is in keeping up with it and it's not

1678
01:08:23,689 --> 01:08:21,540
going to be able to keep up with it much

1679
01:08:26,090 --> 01:08:23,699
longer and we have to figure out a way

1680
01:08:27,709 --> 01:08:26,100
and then this isn't like a doomsday oh

1681
01:08:29,709 --> 01:08:27,719
my God the robots are taking over or

1682
01:08:32,870 --> 01:08:29,719
anything like that I just mean that like

1683
01:08:34,550 --> 01:08:32,880
where we are going our minds are going

1684
01:08:37,910 --> 01:08:34,560
further than where our bodies are going

1685
01:08:41,329 --> 01:08:37,920
right now and if we don't marry those

1686
01:08:43,189 --> 01:08:41,339
two or or close that Gap I don't think

1687
01:08:44,749 --> 01:08:43,199
that um

1688
01:08:45,829 --> 01:08:44,759
I don't know I don't think it's going to

1689
01:08:48,829 --> 01:08:45,839
be I think it's going to be a weird

1690
01:08:51,229 --> 01:08:48,839
future to be honest

1691
01:08:53,870 --> 01:08:51,239
I mean this is always one of the things

1692
01:08:56,450 --> 01:08:53,880
I've heard discussed a lot in spaces

1693
01:08:58,370 --> 01:08:56,460
around ethical technology and Humane

1694
01:09:03,289 --> 01:08:58,380
design is this idea that our

1695
01:09:05,689 --> 01:09:03,299
technological progress is outpacing by a

1696
01:09:07,490 --> 01:09:05,699
very very wide margin

1697
01:09:09,950 --> 01:09:07,500
um any of our ethical and sort of

1698
01:09:12,530 --> 01:09:09,960
cultural capacities to understand this

1699
01:09:15,829 --> 01:09:12,540
and I would also say like

1700
01:09:18,349 --> 01:09:15,839
I mean one of the

1701
01:09:20,510 --> 01:09:18,359
uh I see lots of Twitter spaces hosted

1702
01:09:22,430 --> 01:09:20,520
to talk about AI by lots of people that

1703
01:09:26,470 --> 01:09:22,440
functionally have no [\h__\h] idea of

1704
01:09:32,329 --> 01:09:29,390
AI is like like I see it a lot in the

1705
01:09:34,309 --> 01:09:32,339
UFO Community people talking about AI uh

1706
01:09:36,169 --> 01:09:34,319
who have no functional knowledge of what

1707
01:09:38,209 --> 01:09:36,179
AI actually is

1708
01:09:41,870 --> 01:09:38,219
um and especially its limitations right

1709
01:09:45,289 --> 01:09:41,880
like for people who are not well versed

1710
01:09:48,289 --> 01:09:45,299
with how large language models work

1711
01:09:50,150 --> 01:09:48,299
or how computer Vision Works like Chachi

1712
01:09:52,130 --> 01:09:50,160
PT and mid-journey are functionally

1713
01:09:53,689 --> 01:09:52,140
equivalent to Magic right it's it's

1714
01:09:55,010 --> 01:09:53,699
extraordinary and they are extraordinary

1715
01:09:56,750 --> 01:09:55,020
they're incredibly powerful tools

1716
01:09:58,910 --> 01:09:56,760
they're very cool they're very

1717
01:10:01,729 --> 01:09:58,920
interesting but we are only at the

1718
01:10:03,530 --> 01:10:01,739
earliest earliest edge of any kind of

1719
01:10:05,709 --> 01:10:03,540
meaningful AI

1720
01:10:09,169 --> 01:10:07,790
people are already getting sued for

1721
01:10:11,150 --> 01:10:09,179
artwork being stolen people already

1722
01:10:13,250 --> 01:10:11,160
getting sued for

1723
01:10:14,990 --> 01:10:13,260
um research being done books written

1724
01:10:17,570 --> 01:10:15,000
like this is already happening like

1725
01:10:20,570 --> 01:10:17,580
again these aren't these language

1726
01:10:22,910 --> 01:10:20,580
modelers they're not coming up with

1727
01:10:24,830 --> 01:10:22,920
anything they are taking things that are

1728
01:10:26,330 --> 01:10:24,840
already on the internet and they are

1729
01:10:28,010 --> 01:10:26,340
putting it in front of you and you might

1730
01:10:30,229 --> 01:10:28,020
not have heard of it and it might seem

1731
01:10:32,570 --> 01:10:30,239
new or cool to you but if you've looked

1732
01:10:34,370 --> 01:10:32,580
into any of these Fringe things if

1733
01:10:35,810 --> 01:10:34,380
you've read all the books that I've read

1734
01:10:38,630 --> 01:10:35,820
Leah's read all these people have read

1735
01:10:40,790 --> 01:10:38,640
you would know most of this [\h__\h] but you

1736
01:10:44,330 --> 01:10:40,800
don't so sorry if I'm getting off a read

1737
01:10:47,689 --> 01:10:44,340
a [\h__\h] book okay trust me yes

1738
01:10:50,390 --> 01:10:47,699
the way we're describing AI here is um

1739
01:10:51,890 --> 01:10:50,400
kind of modeling it after other things

1740
01:10:53,510 --> 01:10:51,900
makes me kind of

1741
01:10:54,590 --> 01:10:53,520
almost circled back to what we were

1742
01:10:57,590 --> 01:10:54,600
talking about before and create

1743
01:10:59,570 --> 01:10:57,600
creativity and inspiration and I'm kind

1744
01:11:02,090 --> 01:10:59,580
of not not to linger on that too long

1745
01:11:04,310 --> 01:11:02,100
but I'm kind of wondering how you

1746
01:11:07,010 --> 01:11:04,320
um distinguish you know an original

1747
01:11:09,229 --> 01:11:07,020
thought from maybe one that is you know

1748
01:11:11,149 --> 01:11:09,239
inspired by like we were talking about

1749
01:11:14,209 --> 01:11:11,159
earlier a million different subconscious

1750
01:11:15,290 --> 01:11:14,219
decisions that are that are from like a

1751
01:11:17,630 --> 01:11:15,300
million different influence like

1752
01:11:19,070 --> 01:11:17,640
subconscious influences throughout our

1753
01:11:20,510 --> 01:11:19,080
lives you know how are we distinguishing

1754
01:11:24,290 --> 01:11:20,520
this how are we identifying these things

1755
01:11:28,790 --> 01:11:26,689
the AI thing though and kind of what

1756
01:11:31,970 --> 01:11:28,800
we're experiencing is who this ties in

1757
01:11:33,050 --> 01:11:31,980
and one of the things I do think um I do

1758
01:11:35,930 --> 01:11:33,060
want to emphasize that difference

1759
01:11:38,209 --> 01:11:35,940
between like the the large um or our

1760
01:11:40,430 --> 01:11:38,219
Hungarian friends like lart creativity

1761
01:11:43,570 --> 01:11:40,440
writ large with an original idea and the

1762
01:11:47,030 --> 01:11:43,580
expression of personal creativity which

1763
01:11:50,570 --> 01:11:47,040
the individual to Rel like uh we're all

1764
01:11:51,950 --> 01:11:50,580
now immersed in culture to a degree that

1765
01:11:54,410 --> 01:11:51,960
I don't think anybody's going to have

1766
01:11:56,390 --> 01:11:54,420
original idea but one of the things that

1767
01:11:59,090 --> 01:11:56,400
I I do believe I do believe that

1768
01:12:02,450 --> 01:11:59,100
everybody can access personal creativity

1769
01:12:05,209 --> 01:12:02,460
and hone that like what I I considered a

1770
01:12:06,530 --> 01:12:05,219
sci phenomena home the dowsing reflex to

1771
01:12:09,290 --> 01:12:06,540
make intuitive decisions on your

1772
01:12:11,330 --> 01:12:09,300
personal creativity what I see in the

1773
01:12:15,590 --> 01:12:11,340
world on the on the internet with all

1774
01:12:17,870 --> 01:12:15,600
this stuff is right now we don't have a

1775
01:12:20,450 --> 01:12:17,880
society that values developing that

1776
01:12:22,370 --> 01:12:20,460
skill set we don't have a society that

1777
01:12:25,070 --> 01:12:22,380
encourages people one of the like one of

1778
01:12:27,290 --> 01:12:25,080
the worst things about kind of um stem

1779
01:12:29,870 --> 01:12:27,300
education you're talking about the the

1780
01:12:32,450 --> 01:12:29,880
kind of the um

1781
01:12:35,030 --> 01:12:32,460
big science is gone it's really we're

1782
01:12:37,910 --> 01:12:35,040
really encouraging people to get an

1783
01:12:41,270 --> 01:12:37,920
education that will benefit them in like

1784
01:12:43,070 --> 01:12:41,280
a high-paying job in the workforce a lot

1785
01:12:46,130 --> 01:12:43,080
of people are experiencing personal

1786
01:12:50,030 --> 01:12:46,140
creativity that for the first time in

1787
01:12:53,750 --> 01:12:50,040
their lives using the language models

1788
01:12:55,669 --> 01:12:53,760
using the um image generation things and

1789
01:12:57,830 --> 01:12:55,679
to them it is a miracle and that sort of

1790
01:13:00,229 --> 01:12:57,840
speech I mean that is a reflection

1791
01:13:01,910 --> 01:13:00,239
though largely of the you know Leah you

1792
01:13:04,189 --> 01:13:01,920
always talk about the uh what is it the

1793
01:13:06,709 --> 01:13:04,199
epidemiological crisis that we

1794
01:13:09,590 --> 01:13:06,719
experience that's a large part of that

1795
01:13:12,610 --> 01:13:09,600
it's like everybody is kind of

1796
01:13:15,709 --> 01:13:12,620
um doesn't have

1797
01:13:17,930 --> 01:13:15,719
their ideas were never valued they never

1798
01:13:20,330 --> 01:13:17,940
learned to express themselves visually

1799
01:13:21,950 --> 01:13:20,340
or as writers or as musicians or

1800
01:13:24,709 --> 01:13:21,960
anything and now they have a magic

1801
01:13:27,470 --> 01:13:24,719
machine that can bring that it is

1802
01:13:30,110 --> 01:13:27,480
bringing that out to them and it might

1803
01:13:31,970 --> 01:13:30,120
not be perfect as like somebody would

1804
01:13:33,169 --> 01:13:31,980
compose their own work but it's the

1805
01:13:37,010 --> 01:13:33,179
first time they've ever been able to

1806
01:13:39,590 --> 01:13:37,020
realize that urge and that's why it is

1807
01:13:41,510 --> 01:13:39,600
like it's hard in a way like I feel a

1808
01:13:43,070 --> 01:13:41,520
lot of sympathy for those people because

1809
01:13:44,689 --> 01:13:43,080
people like me that are like a

1810
01:13:47,390 --> 01:13:44,699
professional creative I'm like I'm like

1811
01:13:50,510 --> 01:13:47,400
this all sucks this is all trash like

1812
01:13:54,709 --> 01:13:50,520
you know everything about this is trash

1813
01:13:57,350 --> 01:13:54,719
but like it's also to them they are they

1814
01:13:59,750 --> 01:13:57,360
are now hanging their picture on the

1815
01:14:01,370 --> 01:13:59,760
refrigerator and it's like being able to

1816
01:14:03,709 --> 01:14:01,380
realize that for themselves and it's

1817
01:14:06,290 --> 01:14:03,719
beautiful for them it's just a disaster

1818
01:14:08,990 --> 01:14:06,300
like for culture at large except don't

1819
01:14:10,729 --> 01:14:09,000
worry it's going to implode because as

1820
01:14:12,709 --> 01:14:10,739
where people generate more shitty

1821
01:14:14,149 --> 01:14:12,719
content through language models and put

1822
01:14:16,370 --> 01:14:14,159
it on the internet and the language

1823
01:14:19,490 --> 01:14:16,380
model learns from that eventually it's

1824
01:14:21,709 --> 01:14:19,500
just going to implode like Multiplicity

1825
01:14:23,990 --> 01:14:21,719
with uh with Michael Keaton

1826
01:14:26,390 --> 01:14:24,000
those are fantastic I love Michael

1827
01:14:28,930 --> 01:14:26,400
Keaton just my favorite actor favorite

1828
01:14:30,830 --> 01:14:28,940
actor great I'm sorry I digress

1829
01:14:31,729 --> 01:14:30,840
[Laughter]

1830
01:14:34,130 --> 01:14:31,739
um

1831
01:14:36,830 --> 01:14:34,140
yeah I mean I think that Crea again

1832
01:14:38,030 --> 01:14:36,840
creativity is one of those things where

1833
01:14:41,209 --> 01:14:38,040
um we all like to think we're original

1834
01:14:42,770 --> 01:14:41,219
but even when I know a couple people

1835
01:14:44,570 --> 01:14:42,780
like somebody posted something one time

1836
01:14:46,669 --> 01:14:44,580
they thought it was so original and

1837
01:14:49,010 --> 01:14:46,679
literally somebody retweeted like five

1838
01:14:52,669 --> 01:14:49,020
other people below that it said the

1839
01:14:55,790 --> 01:14:52,679
exact same thing you know so it's like

1840
01:14:57,649 --> 01:14:55,800
but it was it was it you know creative

1841
01:14:59,689 --> 01:14:57,659
to them was it unique to them well that

1842
01:15:01,669 --> 01:14:59,699
but okay but that brings me back to my

1843
01:15:03,910 --> 01:15:01,679
point so you you mentioned earlier Nick

1844
01:15:06,830 --> 01:15:03,920
you said how would we know if it's truly

1845
01:15:08,570 --> 01:15:06,840
original or creative and I think that

1846
01:15:10,370 --> 01:15:08,580
you know look throughout history you

1847
01:15:13,209 --> 01:15:10,380
know like people fight you know why are

1848
01:15:16,070 --> 01:15:13,219
there pyramids all over the world well

1849
01:15:18,290 --> 01:15:16,080
archaeologists will tell you that

1850
01:15:21,410 --> 01:15:18,300
um burial mounds progressively got more

1851
01:15:23,330 --> 01:15:21,420
you know mastabas got more

1852
01:15:24,830 --> 01:15:23,340
um intricate and then they slowly

1853
01:15:26,770 --> 01:15:24,840
started to build up and then the

1854
01:15:29,689 --> 01:15:26,780
triangles the you know the most likely

1855
01:15:31,910 --> 01:15:29,699
uh shape to go you know therefore next

1856
01:15:33,830 --> 01:15:31,920
you know stuff like that

1857
01:15:35,450 --> 01:15:33,840
um I do believe there is a collective

1858
01:15:37,370 --> 01:15:35,460
Consciousness though

1859
01:15:38,450 --> 01:15:37,380
um so you know there's different Vibes

1860
01:15:40,070 --> 01:15:38,460
to that what I just mentioned there's

1861
01:15:41,870 --> 01:15:40,080
people that'll say oh well Asian people

1862
01:15:43,669 --> 01:15:41,880
got around a lot more which we know now

1863
01:15:46,070 --> 01:15:43,679
is actually kind of true

1864
01:15:47,570 --> 01:15:46,080
um there will be people that'll say

1865
01:15:49,850 --> 01:15:47,580
um what I just said that it's just the

1866
01:15:51,050 --> 01:15:49,860
next logical step of Consciousness and

1867
01:15:52,970 --> 01:15:51,060
thinking

1868
01:15:54,649 --> 01:15:52,980
um and then I again I think that that

1869
01:15:56,810 --> 01:15:54,659
you look at that study with rats and how

1870
01:15:57,410 --> 01:15:56,820
rats are able to

1871
01:16:00,590 --> 01:15:57,420
um

1872
01:16:03,229 --> 01:16:00,600
signal across different like continents

1873
01:16:04,790 --> 01:16:03,239
to other rats somehow and different

1874
01:16:06,290 --> 01:16:04,800
traits and things you can look this up I

1875
01:16:08,149 --> 01:16:06,300
don't know how they do it or what it is

1876
01:16:10,070 --> 01:16:08,159
if it's some sort of I haven't heard of

1877
01:16:12,590 --> 01:16:10,080
that genetic signaling or something but

1878
01:16:14,390 --> 01:16:12,600
it's like some one group of rats starts

1879
01:16:16,490 --> 01:16:14,400
doing something and then the other group

1880
01:16:18,070 --> 01:16:16,500
instinctually knows how to do that I

1881
01:16:20,450 --> 01:16:18,080
mean you know then you can get wood

1882
01:16:22,910 --> 01:16:20,460
hundredth monkey effect or whatever yeah

1883
01:16:25,010 --> 01:16:22,920
it's for rats it it almost sounds like

1884
01:16:27,709 --> 01:16:25,020
the rats are entangled uh it's like a

1885
01:16:28,330 --> 01:16:27,719
it's like I'm just gonna say yeah yeah

1886
01:16:30,709 --> 01:16:28,340
yeah

1887
01:16:33,350 --> 01:16:30,719
so is that is that the case and that

1888
01:16:35,030 --> 01:16:33,360
might be the case but

1889
01:16:36,169 --> 01:16:35,040
um we got to do our due diligence so we

1890
01:16:38,149 --> 01:16:36,179
gotta figure we gotta get to the heart

1891
01:16:40,189 --> 01:16:38,159
of it it could be that or maybe these um

1892
01:16:42,350 --> 01:16:40,199
these similarities in Human Experience

1893
01:16:44,330 --> 01:16:42,360
so all across the world kind of speaks

1894
01:16:46,370 --> 01:16:44,340
more to the fact that maybe our

1895
01:16:48,590 --> 01:16:46,380
Consciousness or self-awareness is more

1896
01:16:51,229 --> 01:16:48,600
of an illusion like we talked about in

1897
01:16:52,790 --> 01:16:51,239
the beginning because I mean like we you

1898
01:16:54,110 --> 01:16:52,800
see you see a lot of folklore that

1899
01:16:56,149 --> 01:16:54,120
crosses cultures although they have

1900
01:16:58,490 --> 01:16:56,159
different names I always bring up um

1901
01:17:00,290 --> 01:16:58,500
sleep paralysis the sleep paralysis

1902
01:17:02,930 --> 01:17:00,300
characters that different cultures have

1903
01:17:04,910 --> 01:17:02,940
created are essentially the same thing

1904
01:17:08,090 --> 01:17:04,920
uh although they have different kind of

1905
01:17:11,149 --> 01:17:08,100
window dresses right uh the choking

1906
01:17:12,709 --> 01:17:11,159
ghosts in Japan but but it's based on a

1907
01:17:15,050 --> 01:17:12,719
similar experience and we all have these

1908
01:17:17,450 --> 01:17:15,060
experiences we all have dreams of flying

1909
01:17:20,750 --> 01:17:17,460
and falling and teeth falling out and

1910
01:17:22,850 --> 01:17:20,760
wetting the bed when things like that to

1911
01:17:24,890 --> 01:17:22,860
some extent though on that we're all I

1912
01:17:27,590 --> 01:17:24,900
mean when you think about that we're all

1913
01:17:29,870 --> 01:17:27,600
Homo sapiens sapiens yeah they're all

1914
01:17:32,630 --> 01:17:29,880
descended from the original

1915
01:17:34,970 --> 01:17:32,640
group that came out of a certain Trump

1916
01:17:36,410 --> 01:17:34,980
of Africa and some of those things I

1917
01:17:39,110 --> 01:17:36,420
mean when you look at other animals

1918
01:17:41,810 --> 01:17:39,120
there are some things that are instinct

1919
01:17:44,930 --> 01:17:41,820
that and you know this gets to one of

1920
01:17:46,970 --> 01:17:44,940
those things is like um is is Con did

1921
01:17:48,610 --> 01:17:46,980
Consciousness evolve because it was

1922
01:17:51,290 --> 01:17:48,620
evolutionary like evolutionary

1923
01:17:53,930 --> 01:17:51,300
advantageous for us to survive and just

1924
01:17:56,689 --> 01:17:53,940
being able to be like bummed about stuff

1925
01:18:00,229 --> 01:17:56,699
in the abstract is an unfortunate side

1926
01:18:03,229 --> 01:18:00,239
effect you know I I don't I don't know

1927
01:18:06,410 --> 01:18:03,239
that's my theory uh um mysteries in

1928
01:18:08,149 --> 01:18:06,420
general right now is that the Mysteries

1929
01:18:10,189 --> 01:18:08,159
um are us dangling the carrot in front

1930
01:18:11,870 --> 01:18:10,199
of ourselves as some sort of built-in

1931
01:18:15,350 --> 01:18:11,880
evolutionary mechanism to keep

1932
01:18:17,209 --> 01:18:15,360
propelling keep surviving and you know

1933
01:18:19,970 --> 01:18:17,219
you can Richard Dawkins is probably the

1934
01:18:21,770 --> 01:18:19,980
most Bleak thinker on the topic but

1935
01:18:24,110 --> 01:18:21,780
um I would make the point that there is

1936
01:18:26,510 --> 01:18:24,120
Telos or purpose to life because just in

1937
01:18:28,790 --> 01:18:26,520
the fact that life needs to survive or

1938
01:18:30,890 --> 01:18:28,800
has that urge to survive that is purpose

1939
01:18:33,050 --> 01:18:30,900
in itself so

1940
01:18:35,030 --> 01:18:33,060
um yeah yeah I mean I think that there's

1941
01:18:38,270 --> 01:18:35,040
something to that I just don't we you

1942
01:18:39,910 --> 01:18:38,280
know we got to keep pushing that uh that

1943
01:18:42,050 --> 01:18:39,920
boulder up the mountain

1944
01:18:43,430 --> 01:18:42,060
for the next person because we're all

1945
01:18:48,950 --> 01:18:43,440
gonna die and that Boulder's gonna start

1946
01:18:54,770 --> 01:18:51,590
um upload my brain to the internet Elon

1947
01:18:57,410 --> 01:18:54,780
it's just a copy though right it's like

1948
01:18:59,209 --> 01:18:57,420
it's like it's like the beaming in Star

1949
01:19:01,970 --> 01:18:59,219
Trek they die every time they do that

1950
01:19:04,130 --> 01:19:01,980
it's the same my brain send my brain of

1951
01:19:07,310 --> 01:19:04,140
the special Access program put me put me

1952
01:19:10,310 --> 01:19:07,320
in the hanger with the uh um I don't

1953
01:19:13,070 --> 01:19:10,320
know I don't care if I have to if I yes

1954
01:19:15,649 --> 01:19:13,080
I I will ship a Theseus myself into

1955
01:19:17,870 --> 01:19:15,659
whatever the next thing is as long as I

1956
01:19:19,310 --> 01:19:17,880
can keep [\h__\h] posting

1957
01:19:20,990 --> 01:19:19,320
um

1958
01:19:27,290 --> 01:19:21,000
like Ghost in the Shell

1959
01:19:29,330 --> 01:19:27,300
with more [\h__\h] posting yes

1960
01:19:30,950 --> 01:19:29,340
well I mean that was you know that

1961
01:19:32,689 --> 01:19:30,960
reminds me though that was the whole

1962
01:19:34,930 --> 01:19:32,699
Crux of like the first real great

1963
01:19:37,610 --> 01:19:34,940
science fiction work was the like

1964
01:19:41,209 --> 01:19:37,620
emergence of true Consciousness in

1965
01:19:43,790 --> 01:19:41,219
Neuromancer at the end of that and then

1966
01:19:47,090 --> 01:19:43,800
we all decided to be the um

1967
01:19:49,490 --> 01:19:47,100
Haitian Yoruba deities because that was

1968
01:19:51,050 --> 01:19:49,500
just I guess I like that that was my

1969
01:19:52,850 --> 01:19:51,060
favorite part of that it was just kind

1970
01:19:54,590 --> 01:19:52,860
of the idea that AI becomes conscious

1971
01:19:58,390 --> 01:19:54,600
and then it's just like you would be

1972
01:20:02,209 --> 01:19:58,400
sick as hell as if I was like papalega

1973
01:20:04,070 --> 01:20:02,219
like I'm doing that that's my culturally

1974
01:20:06,590 --> 01:20:04,080
appropriating this right now because

1975
01:20:09,950 --> 01:20:06,600
that would be rad

1976
01:20:12,709 --> 01:20:09,960
nice yeah you know I will say this uh

1977
01:20:14,990 --> 01:20:12,719
since having my son too like I've always

1978
01:20:16,010 --> 01:20:15,000
been interested in all these Mysteries I

1979
01:20:18,890 --> 01:20:16,020
feel like I have more of a

1980
01:20:22,070 --> 01:20:18,900
responsibility to think about it more

1981
01:20:24,770 --> 01:20:22,080
responsibly now so I can convey that to

1982
01:20:27,290 --> 01:20:24,780
him as opposed to being

1983
01:20:28,790 --> 01:20:27,300
like lost in the sauce on it you know

1984
01:20:31,189 --> 01:20:28,800
like I just

1985
01:20:32,930 --> 01:20:31,199
it was okay you know like and I just

1986
01:20:35,030 --> 01:20:32,940
feel like that's part of my maturity too

1987
01:20:36,350 --> 01:20:35,040
like I and I haven't announced this but

1988
01:20:38,330 --> 01:20:36,360
you know we're going to keep doing mind

1989
01:20:39,950 --> 01:20:38,340
Escape I've been on a month Hiatus just

1990
01:20:41,450 --> 01:20:39,960
enjoying my life and taking a break

1991
01:20:44,270 --> 01:20:41,460
after making the documentary and

1992
01:20:46,010 --> 01:20:44,280
everything uh but we're gonna go in a

1993
01:20:47,270 --> 01:20:46,020
more realistic route we're still going

1994
01:20:48,950 --> 01:20:47,280
to investigate all the Mysteries it's

1995
01:20:50,030 --> 01:20:48,960
still a philosophy podcast we're still

1996
01:20:52,790 --> 01:20:50,040
going to interview a lot of the same

1997
01:20:55,370 --> 01:20:52,800
people uh the the difference is I'm not

1998
01:20:57,229 --> 01:20:55,380
gonna bolster up people

1999
01:20:58,669 --> 01:20:57,239
um just because they're in headlines or

2000
01:21:00,709 --> 01:20:58,679
whatever and I'm not going to get on and

2001
01:21:02,209 --> 01:21:00,719
say oh they found this and like do that

2002
01:21:03,830 --> 01:21:02,219
whole thing I'm just not part of that

2003
01:21:06,110 --> 01:21:03,840
media cycle anymore I'm just gonna do

2004
01:21:07,970 --> 01:21:06,120
what I find interesting and what I want

2005
01:21:10,910 --> 01:21:07,980
to do not what I feel like I should do

2006
01:21:12,350 --> 01:21:10,920
for SEO and algorithms and that towards

2007
01:21:14,090 --> 01:21:12,360
the end that's what I was doing I'm a

2008
01:21:17,149 --> 01:21:14,100
very competitive person and I saw a lot

2009
01:21:19,850 --> 01:21:17,159
of no offense Dumber uh inferior people

2010
01:21:22,250 --> 01:21:19,860
that put out inferior products uh just

2011
01:21:30,130 --> 01:21:22,260
getting pissed off about it

2012
01:21:34,850 --> 01:21:32,990
look you don't have to it's not too hard

2013
01:21:36,590 --> 01:21:34,860
but like I have a lot of friends we've

2014
01:21:38,030 --> 01:21:36,600
had a lot of I'm nice I'm nice to

2015
01:21:40,610 --> 01:21:38,040
everybody we've had a lot of people I

2016
01:21:41,990 --> 01:21:40,620
promote a lot of people but you can kind

2017
01:21:43,310 --> 01:21:42,000
of tell by the people I don't promote

2018
01:21:44,870 --> 01:21:43,320
you can kind of tell by the people I

2019
01:21:47,750 --> 01:21:44,880
don't engage with you can tell by the

2020
01:21:50,450 --> 01:21:47,760
people I don't interact with and I don't

2021
01:21:52,070 --> 01:21:50,460
do [\h__\h] so

2022
01:21:53,870 --> 01:21:52,080
um I'm cutting out all the [\h__\h] and

2023
01:21:56,510 --> 01:21:53,880
there's people that I've held up you

2024
01:21:59,330 --> 01:21:56,520
know in The Fringe whether it be Fringe

2025
01:22:02,270 --> 01:21:59,340
you know ancient stuff or the fringe

2026
01:22:03,350 --> 01:22:02,280
science stuff or whatever that

2027
01:22:05,270 --> 01:22:03,360
um you know some of those people are

2028
01:22:07,189 --> 01:22:05,280
pieces of [\h__\h] too so

2029
01:22:09,050 --> 01:22:07,199
um it's gonna be more

2030
01:22:12,649 --> 01:22:09,060
um yeah I know it's going to be just

2031
01:22:14,330 --> 01:22:12,659
straight straight talk going forward

2032
01:22:16,189 --> 01:22:14,340
I'm excited for this direction that

2033
01:22:17,689 --> 01:22:16,199
you're taking partly because you were a

2034
01:22:19,729 --> 01:22:17,699
huge influence on me when I started

2035
01:22:21,709 --> 01:22:19,739
getting interested in doing my own show

2036
01:22:24,229 --> 01:22:21,719
and you were one of the first people to

2037
01:22:26,030 --> 01:22:24,239
give me a chance and put me on

2038
01:22:27,709 --> 01:22:26,040
um but one of the things and we've

2039
01:22:29,810 --> 01:22:27,719
talked about this a bit on this show I'm

2040
01:22:31,970 --> 01:22:29,820
sure you can relate to it is basically

2041
01:22:34,729 --> 01:22:31,980
that ethical

2042
01:22:37,250 --> 01:22:34,739
um or moral obligations we have towards

2043
01:22:39,310 --> 01:22:37,260
the subjects we engage with particularly

2044
01:22:41,689 --> 01:22:39,320
during this period of basically

2045
01:22:43,729 --> 01:22:41,699
epistemological crisis where we're

2046
01:22:45,950 --> 01:22:43,739
living in this like post-truth period

2047
01:22:48,110 --> 01:22:45,960
like how do we talk about engage with

2048
01:22:49,610 --> 01:22:48,120
this subject without also simultaneously

2049
01:22:52,310 --> 01:22:49,620
legitimizing like some of the really

2050
01:22:57,169 --> 01:22:52,320
deleterious conspiracy style thinking

2051
01:22:58,130 --> 01:22:57,179
right uh a turn the biggest turn for me

2052
01:23:01,189 --> 01:22:58,140
um

2053
01:23:03,770 --> 01:23:01,199
I read Plato's dialogues all the way

2054
01:23:05,689 --> 01:23:03,780
through all of them probably three years

2055
01:23:06,590 --> 01:23:05,699
ago

2056
01:23:07,970 --> 01:23:06,600
um

2057
01:23:10,250 --> 01:23:07,980
and there's something that struck me

2058
01:23:12,470 --> 01:23:10,260
though when I re-read them like a year

2059
01:23:15,229 --> 01:23:12,480
and a half ago maybe two years ago which

2060
01:23:18,350 --> 01:23:15,239
was uh euthademus which is these two

2061
01:23:20,209 --> 01:23:18,360
brothers that are arguing with Socrates

2062
01:23:21,770 --> 01:23:20,219
and the square and they're making them

2063
01:23:23,570 --> 01:23:21,780
look dumb even though he doesn't care

2064
01:23:25,910 --> 01:23:23,580
because he's just asking them you know

2065
01:23:27,590 --> 01:23:25,920
he's using Socratic method

2066
01:23:29,870 --> 01:23:27,600
um and it the whole point of it's to

2067
01:23:31,910 --> 01:23:29,880
talk about aristic rhetoric aristic

2068
01:23:33,830 --> 01:23:31,920
rhetoric is rhetoric that you use to

2069
01:23:37,130 --> 01:23:33,840
argue but you're not after truth so

2070
01:23:39,830 --> 01:23:37,140
these two you know Diana Diana sidoris

2071
01:23:40,430 --> 01:23:39,840
whatever his name is in euthanas

2072
01:23:42,709 --> 01:23:40,440
um

2073
01:23:44,149 --> 01:23:42,719
arguing with Socrates without actually

2074
01:23:45,290 --> 01:23:44,159
trying to get after the truth they were

2075
01:23:46,550 --> 01:23:45,300
just trying to make them look dumb in

2076
01:23:49,430 --> 01:23:46,560
front of people and that's all the

2077
01:23:52,070 --> 01:23:49,440
internet is so it's on Twitter you know

2078
01:23:53,510 --> 01:23:52,080
people take a [\h__\h] on Plato sometimes or

2079
01:23:55,610 --> 01:23:53,520
he's old or he didn't know you know

2080
01:23:57,590 --> 01:23:55,620
whatever these values are flawed well he

2081
01:23:59,209 --> 01:23:57,600
had no [\h__\h] he lived you know 2 000

2082
01:24:00,050 --> 01:23:59,219
years ago or whatever things were

2083
01:24:01,669 --> 01:24:00,060
different

2084
01:24:03,410 --> 01:24:01,679
um but at the end of the day there's a

2085
01:24:04,729 --> 01:24:03,420
lot of Truth there too and I think that

2086
01:24:06,350 --> 01:24:04,739
that was a turning point for me to

2087
01:24:07,490 --> 01:24:06,360
realize I don't want to con I don't want

2088
01:24:08,870 --> 01:24:07,500
to compete with these people I don't

2089
01:24:10,729 --> 01:24:08,880
want to argue with these people I don't

2090
01:24:12,709 --> 01:24:10,739
want to deal with these people I'm going

2091
01:24:15,350 --> 01:24:12,719
to do what I want to do

2092
01:24:17,630 --> 01:24:15,360
um and that's just it and and for me you

2093
01:24:19,490 --> 01:24:17,640
know I love again these Mysteries I

2094
01:24:20,630 --> 01:24:19,500
think there's something to the UFO thing

2095
01:24:21,830 --> 01:24:20,640
I think there's something to

2096
01:24:23,090 --> 01:24:21,840
Consciousness I think there's something

2097
01:24:24,950 --> 01:24:23,100
to psychedelics I think there's

2098
01:24:26,810 --> 01:24:24,960
something to the Paranormal stuff I

2099
01:24:28,550 --> 01:24:26,820
think there's something to all of this I

2100
01:24:30,290 --> 01:24:28,560
don't know what it is I think these are

2101
01:24:31,910 --> 01:24:30,300
all metaphysics for a reason because

2102
01:24:34,130 --> 01:24:31,920
they're beyond the scope of our current

2103
01:24:35,630 --> 01:24:34,140
understanding and observation

2104
01:24:38,750 --> 01:24:35,640
um that's why they're all interesting to

2105
01:24:41,090 --> 01:24:38,760
us but again I'm not gonna just say

2106
01:24:43,430 --> 01:24:41,100
crazy [\h__\h] to get like circuit or

2107
01:24:45,169 --> 01:24:43,440
whatever I'm gonna if I if I don't make

2108
01:24:48,229 --> 01:24:45,179
a cent from this you know I don't really

2109
01:24:49,550 --> 01:24:48,239
care it's all about truth

2110
01:24:51,470 --> 01:24:49,560
yes

2111
01:24:52,490 --> 01:24:51,480
so we're getting to the bottom of the

2112
01:24:54,649 --> 01:24:52,500
hour

2113
01:24:56,030 --> 01:24:54,659
um before we wrap up I'd love for you to

2114
01:24:57,709 --> 01:24:56,040
talk a little bit about your documentary

2115
01:25:00,709 --> 01:24:57,719
where people can find it

2116
01:25:02,930 --> 01:25:00,719
um what it covers what it's about yeah

2117
01:25:05,090 --> 01:25:02,940
um so Leah's in it

2118
01:25:06,590 --> 01:25:05,100
um yeah we talked about that already oh

2119
01:25:07,850 --> 01:25:06,600
you did okay

2120
01:25:08,870 --> 01:25:07,860
um sorry yeah I was getting off work

2121
01:25:10,250 --> 01:25:08,880
when you guys were probably just

2122
01:25:12,110 --> 01:25:10,260
starting

2123
01:25:13,910 --> 01:25:12,120
um so

2124
01:25:17,930 --> 01:25:13,920
it's called

2125
01:25:19,990 --> 01:25:17,940
um basically hold on a second

2126
01:25:22,790 --> 01:25:20,000
um it will be

2127
01:25:24,830 --> 01:25:22,800
premiering at I'll get in trouble if I

2128
01:25:28,689 --> 01:25:24,840
don't get this right it will be

2129
01:25:33,290 --> 01:25:28,699
premiering at the Roswell Film Festival

2130
01:25:35,030 --> 01:25:33,300
uh June 30th to July 2nd and it's at the

2131
01:25:37,010 --> 01:25:35,040
movie theater there I'll get the

2132
01:25:38,450 --> 01:25:37,020
information I don't think I have it

2133
01:25:39,770 --> 01:25:38,460
right here

2134
01:25:42,470 --> 01:25:39,780
um

2135
01:25:46,070 --> 01:25:42,480
hold on a second this is the Roswell New

2136
01:25:47,570 --> 01:25:46,080
Mexico Roswell yeah the Ross so my buddy

2137
01:25:50,689 --> 01:25:47,580
Toby who works at the Roswell Daily

2138
01:25:53,630 --> 01:25:50,699
Record uh which is most famous for

2139
01:25:55,790 --> 01:25:53,640
reporting the initial Roswell crash

2140
01:25:57,350 --> 01:25:55,800
um he's putting on this Film Festival

2141
01:26:01,610 --> 01:25:57,360
where

2142
01:26:03,950 --> 01:26:01,620
um you know he's uh he's got this Maximo

2143
01:26:05,510 --> 01:26:03,960
this guy from uh Argentina that that

2144
01:26:06,770 --> 01:26:05,520
they're connecting with and they're

2145
01:26:08,270 --> 01:26:06,780
getting all these different filmmakers

2146
01:26:10,129 --> 01:26:08,280
from across the world and stuff like

2147
01:26:11,510 --> 01:26:10,139
that so it's gonna be really cool

2148
01:26:14,330 --> 01:26:11,520
um and it's all in the UFO and

2149
01:26:16,189 --> 01:26:14,340
paranormal topics and stuff like that

2150
01:26:17,570 --> 01:26:16,199
um we already premiered our documentary

2151
01:26:25,129 --> 01:26:17,580
at

2152
01:26:28,910 --> 01:26:25,139
two months ago uh we won an award which

2153
01:26:32,689 --> 01:26:28,920
was very very unexpected and very nice

2154
01:26:35,870 --> 01:26:32,699
um and in terms of uh

2155
01:26:37,550 --> 01:26:35,880
what we do next with the documentary I'm

2156
01:26:40,129 --> 01:26:37,560
just trying to think

2157
01:26:42,530 --> 01:26:40,139
um first of all what's it called

2158
01:26:45,649 --> 01:26:42,540
you tell everybody what's it called

2159
01:26:48,770 --> 01:26:45,659
uh I always remember the tagline of um

2160
01:26:51,890 --> 01:26:48,780
from UFOs to DMT as within so without

2161
01:26:54,110 --> 01:26:51,900
from being opposed to DMT so so you

2162
01:26:55,850 --> 01:26:54,120
actually I forget the first part because

2163
01:26:58,850 --> 01:26:55,860
we've talked so much about what to call

2164
01:27:00,590 --> 01:26:58,860
it at one point yeah you so I had a

2165
01:27:02,750 --> 01:27:00,600
different title this is the story I had

2166
01:27:07,430 --> 01:27:02,760
a different title I had the experiences

2167
01:27:09,649 --> 01:27:07,440
from UFOs or UAP to DMT and then that

2168
01:27:11,270 --> 01:27:09,659
whole thing happened with saucerco and

2169
01:27:12,830 --> 01:27:11,280
they started like suing people and

2170
01:27:15,590 --> 01:27:12,840
having people take every anything that

2171
01:27:16,970 --> 01:27:15,600
had UAP on it so I'm like oh [\h__\h] I'm

2172
01:27:18,169 --> 01:27:16,980
making this documentary I don't want to

2173
01:27:19,669 --> 01:27:18,179
deal with this what if we want to make

2174
01:27:21,350 --> 01:27:19,679
merchandise what if we want to make a

2175
01:27:22,790 --> 01:27:21,360
t-shirt or whatever I don't want to deal

2176
01:27:25,370 --> 01:27:22,800
with this at all

2177
01:27:26,689 --> 01:27:25,380
um so then we had to kind of we at that

2178
01:27:28,129 --> 01:27:26,699
point we were still editing the

2179
01:27:29,810 --> 01:27:28,139
documentary so it wasn't that big of a

2180
01:27:32,810 --> 01:27:29,820
deal so I'm like I gotta come up with a

2181
01:27:35,209 --> 01:27:32,820
new name and I was on a family vacation

2182
01:27:37,970 --> 01:27:35,219
we were in Florida and I was just like

2183
01:27:39,530 --> 01:27:37,980
kind of swimming all day just thinking

2184
01:27:41,689 --> 01:27:39,540
meditating

2185
01:27:44,149 --> 01:27:41,699
um and then I texted Leah like five

2186
01:27:45,950 --> 01:27:44,159
options and I I had one in mind and she

2187
01:27:48,350 --> 01:27:45,960
picked the same one out of the five that

2188
01:27:49,970 --> 01:27:48,360
I was like leaning towards

2189
01:27:52,850 --> 01:27:49,980
um so I kind of just went with that one

2190
01:27:54,890 --> 01:27:52,860
because I felt like it did convey which

2191
01:27:56,870 --> 01:27:54,900
is as within so without which is not

2192
01:27:57,530 --> 01:27:56,880
part of the original

2193
01:28:00,530 --> 01:27:57,540
um

2194
01:28:03,950 --> 01:28:00,540
you know hermetic uh or uh

2195
01:28:05,689 --> 01:28:03,960
Emerald Tablet thing but you know it's

2196
01:28:08,270 --> 01:28:05,699
an interesting aspect of it nonetheless

2197
01:28:09,709 --> 01:28:08,280
and it conveys the UFO thing to me which

2198
01:28:13,189 --> 01:28:09,719
is that it has to do with Consciousness

2199
01:28:15,050 --> 01:28:13,199
as within so without in terms of

2200
01:28:17,149 --> 01:28:15,060
um you know most people as above so

2201
01:28:19,370 --> 01:28:17,159
below would make more sense uh because

2202
01:28:21,770 --> 01:28:19,380
of the UFO but I disagree I think it's

2203
01:28:25,729 --> 01:28:21,780
as within so without

2204
01:28:28,030 --> 01:28:25,739
um and uh from UFOs to DMT and yeah it's

2205
01:28:30,470 --> 01:28:28,040
it's a it's a

2206
01:28:32,270 --> 01:28:30,480
so I don't want to go too much into it

2207
01:28:35,149 --> 01:28:32,280
but just the backstory behind it like

2208
01:28:37,070 --> 01:28:35,159
three years ago I saw we were gonna make

2209
01:28:38,750 --> 01:28:37,080
a documentary our first documentary on

2210
01:28:41,149 --> 01:28:38,760
near-death experiences my mom had a

2211
01:28:42,890 --> 01:28:41,159
traditional near-death experience we had

2212
01:28:45,290 --> 01:28:42,900
tons of people

2213
01:28:47,629 --> 01:28:45,300
um on our show so far uh one guy had two

2214
01:28:49,250 --> 01:28:47,639
real near-death experiences

2215
01:28:50,689 --> 01:28:49,260
um he had a heart transplant like all

2216
01:28:52,790 --> 01:28:50,699
sorts of stuff so we had all that stuff

2217
01:28:54,890 --> 01:28:52,800
like lined up uh and information

2218
01:28:56,450 --> 01:28:54,900
everything but then the pandemic hit so

2219
01:28:58,129 --> 01:28:56,460
they were like oh [\h__\h] we can't fly

2220
01:28:59,570 --> 01:28:58,139
everywhere and see everybody what are we

2221
01:29:02,030 --> 01:28:59,580
gonna do

2222
01:29:03,709 --> 01:29:02,040
um I saw my buddy uh Chris Wolford post

2223
01:29:06,290 --> 01:29:03,719
something about how he you know he's

2224
01:29:09,470 --> 01:29:06,300
never told his story fully and at that

2225
01:29:12,649 --> 01:29:09,480
time I was still I was in between being

2226
01:29:14,510 --> 01:29:12,659
interested in the the government stuff

2227
01:29:16,010 --> 01:29:14,520
but starting to lean more towards

2228
01:29:17,870 --> 01:29:16,020
experience because I didn't feel like

2229
01:29:21,950 --> 01:29:17,880
there was much to the government stuff I

2230
01:29:23,689 --> 01:29:21,960
feel like most of the the good info lies

2231
01:29:26,930 --> 01:29:23,699
within

2232
01:29:29,030 --> 01:29:26,940
um the experiencer aspect of it so

2233
01:29:32,750 --> 01:29:29,040
um and Chris is a straight guy I'm a

2234
01:29:34,790 --> 01:29:32,760
Detroit guy just kind of worked out so

2235
01:29:36,470 --> 01:29:34,800
um so we just linked up and we just

2236
01:29:37,850 --> 01:29:36,480
started snowballing ideas and he was

2237
01:29:39,470 --> 01:29:37,860
cool he's like I just want to tell my

2238
01:29:41,990 --> 01:29:39,480
story and you guys do whatever you want

2239
01:29:43,490 --> 01:29:42,000
you know with the rest of it and I had

2240
01:29:46,010 --> 01:29:43,500
the idea

2241
01:29:46,910 --> 01:29:46,020
um well what's what kind of crossover do

2242
01:29:49,490 --> 01:29:46,920
we have because it's all about

2243
01:29:52,750 --> 01:29:49,500
Consciousness and I've had entity

2244
01:29:55,010 --> 01:29:52,760
experiences and UFO experiences and

2245
01:29:56,810 --> 01:29:55,020
psychedelic experiences and Altered

2246
01:30:00,590 --> 01:29:56,820
States of consciousness

2247
01:30:01,430 --> 01:30:00,600
what's up uh sorry my cats freaking out

2248
01:30:04,850 --> 01:30:01,440
um

2249
01:30:05,450 --> 01:30:04,860
and uh you know I've had all sorts of

2250
01:30:07,850 --> 01:30:05,460
um

2251
01:30:09,950 --> 01:30:07,860
you know weird experiences and stuff

2252
01:30:11,870 --> 01:30:09,960
like that so like what can we do so then

2253
01:30:14,570 --> 01:30:11,880
I thought okay well

2254
01:30:16,250 --> 01:30:14,580
um you know Leah can speak to this but

2255
01:30:17,510 --> 01:30:16,260
you know there's Dr Andrew galemore

2256
01:30:19,850 --> 01:30:17,520
who's written the book alien information

2257
01:30:23,570 --> 01:30:19,860
Theory there's a lot of information on

2258
01:30:26,149 --> 01:30:23,580
DMT I know a lot about psychedelics

2259
01:30:28,070 --> 01:30:26,159
um and I've had weird UFO slash alien

2260
01:30:29,810 --> 01:30:28,080
experiences on psychedelics I just felt

2261
01:30:32,330 --> 01:30:29,820
like that was something I could speak to

2262
01:30:34,910 --> 01:30:32,340
through other people and ask questions

2263
01:30:38,930 --> 01:30:34,920
that I felt I could evoke almost using

2264
01:30:40,430 --> 01:30:38,940
the Socratic method could uh get that

2265
01:30:42,050 --> 01:30:40,440
out of people so that's kind of what I

2266
01:30:44,450 --> 01:30:42,060
did I just asked questions where I felt

2267
01:30:45,770 --> 01:30:44,460
like I would get a general answer based

2268
01:30:46,850 --> 01:30:45,780
on what I already knew about these

2269
01:30:50,450 --> 01:30:46,860
people

2270
01:30:52,490 --> 01:30:50,460
um and uh so I mean I didn't train

2271
01:30:54,110 --> 01:30:52,500
anybody or change or manipulate anything

2272
01:30:56,209 --> 01:30:54,120
it was just

2273
01:30:59,270 --> 01:30:56,219
um hey I know this person's story kind

2274
01:31:01,910 --> 01:30:59,280
of and I just kind of you know we pieced

2275
01:31:04,070 --> 01:31:01,920
it from there so bottom line is I

2276
01:31:07,729 --> 01:31:04,080
believe that there's a connection to

2277
01:31:08,750 --> 01:31:07,739
Consciousness and UFOs

2278
01:31:10,430 --> 01:31:08,760
um

2279
01:31:12,110 --> 01:31:10,440
obviously that's what we've been talking

2280
01:31:14,149 --> 01:31:12,120
about I also believe that there's a

2281
01:31:17,149 --> 01:31:14,159
connection between psychedelics and

2282
01:31:19,370 --> 01:31:17,159
whatever this weird other thing is

2283
01:31:22,370 --> 01:31:19,380
um and then the other nail in the coffin

2284
01:31:24,709 --> 01:31:22,380
was while I was making it uh true

2285
01:31:26,510 --> 01:31:24,719
hallucinations kept popping back up of

2286
01:31:28,550 --> 01:31:26,520
my feet and I had read that book

2287
01:31:31,250 --> 01:31:28,560
multiple times and if you know what true

2288
01:31:33,830 --> 01:31:31,260
hallucinations is it's Terence McKenna

2289
01:31:36,830 --> 01:31:33,840
and Dennis McKenna going all throughout

2290
01:31:39,610 --> 01:31:36,840
uh Colombia and then they end up you

2291
01:31:43,310 --> 01:31:39,620
know trying to find this um

2292
01:31:45,830 --> 01:31:43,320
it's basically like an orally active DMT

2293
01:31:49,430 --> 01:31:45,840
paste that these indigenous

2294
01:31:53,390 --> 01:31:49,440
um people in Colombia create

2295
01:31:58,070 --> 01:31:53,400
um and and the whole thing is basically

2296
01:32:01,189 --> 01:31:58,080
about UFOs and psychedelics and Altered

2297
01:32:03,890 --> 01:32:01,199
States Of Consciousness and trying to

2298
01:32:05,330 --> 01:32:03,900
um you know bring that out

2299
01:32:07,490 --> 01:32:05,340
um you know in some sort of way and

2300
01:32:09,350 --> 01:32:07,500
figure out what's going on uh if you've

2301
01:32:11,930 --> 01:32:09,360
ever heard Dennis McKenna talk about the

2302
01:32:14,450 --> 01:32:11,940
experiment at La charera that's the most

2303
01:32:16,250 --> 01:32:14,460
interesting aspect of it to me

2304
01:32:18,830 --> 01:32:16,260
um so I don't want to ruin it but yeah

2305
01:32:20,209 --> 01:32:18,840
the Lash rera thing and I've had my own

2306
01:32:22,910 --> 01:32:20,219
weird experiences it just kind of all

2307
01:32:24,709 --> 01:32:22,920
came together so I'm not saying that

2308
01:32:26,510 --> 01:32:24,719
psychedelics

2309
01:32:29,510 --> 01:32:26,520
um you know will put you in touch with

2310
01:32:31,850 --> 01:32:29,520
aliens or whatever but we're on Twitter

2311
01:32:35,290 --> 01:32:31,860
all day long talking about aliens you're

2312
01:32:38,090 --> 01:32:35,300
everybody's wondering about aliens and

2313
01:32:40,070 --> 01:32:38,100
here's this whole section of people that

2314
01:32:42,050 --> 01:32:40,080
do psychedelics regularly Psychonauts

2315
01:32:44,209 --> 01:32:42,060
and stuff that claim to be talking to

2316
01:32:46,010 --> 01:32:44,219
aliens regularly let's investigate this

2317
01:32:48,470 --> 01:32:46,020
so that's kind of what the documentary

2318
01:32:50,689 --> 01:32:48,480
is it's a combination of the UFO

2319
01:32:52,790 --> 01:32:50,699
experience with the DMT experience and

2320
01:32:54,649 --> 01:32:52,800
then some crossover is there Bridges

2321
01:32:57,590 --> 01:32:54,659
they're not a bridge one thing I will

2322
01:32:59,090 --> 01:32:57,600
point out that's very very fascinating

2323
01:33:02,689 --> 01:32:59,100
um

2324
01:33:04,910 --> 01:33:02,699
the people that I know that do a lot of

2325
01:33:07,070 --> 01:33:04,920
psychedelics have had UFO experiences

2326
01:33:09,590 --> 01:33:07,080
outside of psychedelics

2327
01:33:11,410 --> 01:33:09,600
and then there's also people that I know

2328
01:33:14,030 --> 01:33:11,420
that have never had a UFO experience

2329
01:33:17,930 --> 01:33:14,040
that have had UFO experiences within

2330
01:33:20,270 --> 01:33:17,940
psychedelics it's also interesting that

2331
01:33:22,189 --> 01:33:20,280
when people experience these things

2332
01:33:25,850 --> 01:33:22,199
they'll experience entities but they

2333
01:33:28,550 --> 01:33:25,860
won't experience the the typical saucer

2334
01:33:30,890 --> 01:33:28,560
UFO which I find fascinating too so

2335
01:33:33,169 --> 01:33:30,900
what's going on there why certain

2336
01:33:35,450 --> 01:33:33,179
aspects and certain Realms and not other

2337
01:33:37,850 --> 01:33:35,460
aspects in other Realms

2338
01:33:38,689 --> 01:33:37,860
um I don't know but that's just part of

2339
01:33:41,570 --> 01:33:38,699
the

2340
01:33:43,970 --> 01:33:41,580
mystery just started starting to unfold

2341
01:33:46,250 --> 01:33:43,980
um yeah and you know again it's

2342
01:33:48,770 --> 01:33:46,260
you know we this was a passion project

2343
01:33:51,590 --> 01:33:48,780
so a lot of the footage I had you know

2344
01:33:54,169 --> 01:33:51,600
sent in from everybody you know we did

2345
01:33:56,450 --> 01:33:54,179
go out to Chris wolford's farm and shoot

2346
01:33:58,250 --> 01:33:56,460
everything with like a drone and probe

2347
01:33:59,930 --> 01:33:58,260
everything like that and

2348
01:34:01,550 --> 01:33:59,940
um everybody else was kind enough to

2349
01:34:03,770 --> 01:34:01,560
just send in their footage because again

2350
01:34:06,470 --> 01:34:03,780
it was during the pandemic so but yeah

2351
01:34:09,410 --> 01:34:06,480
that's kind of the spiel about it

2352
01:34:12,590 --> 01:34:09,420
um and if anybody wants to see it it is

2353
01:34:13,750 --> 01:34:12,600
available on our patreon uh you can go

2354
01:34:20,090 --> 01:34:13,760
to

2355
01:34:22,070 --> 01:34:20,100
our link tree uh we're on all platforms

2356
01:34:26,390 --> 01:34:22,080
um and uh yeah for it's available for

2357
01:34:29,330 --> 01:34:26,400
the director's Cuts available for 777.

2358
01:34:31,250 --> 01:34:29,340
um we are going to release a a way more

2359
01:34:33,530 --> 01:34:31,260
edited version that will be shown at

2360
01:34:35,930 --> 01:34:33,540
that film festival

2361
01:34:37,490 --> 01:34:35,940
um and we might after it airs at that

2362
01:34:39,649 --> 01:34:37,500
film festival we might put it up on

2363
01:34:41,390 --> 01:34:39,659
YouTube for free but it'll probably be a

2364
01:34:45,470 --> 01:34:41,400
lot shorter than the version that's up

2365
01:34:48,229 --> 01:34:45,480
for the director's bet so love it

2366
01:34:50,450 --> 01:34:48,239
but yeah thank you thank you for of

2367
01:34:55,570 --> 01:34:50,460
course yeah sorry if I sound like a big

2368
01:34:58,129 --> 01:34:55,580
[\h__\h] weirdo but oh you are also yeah

2369
01:34:59,270 --> 01:34:58,139
the last thing you have to worry about

2370
01:35:00,950 --> 01:34:59,280
yeah

2371
01:35:03,410 --> 01:35:00,960
yes this was awesome thanks so much for

2372
01:35:06,890 --> 01:35:03,420
making time to drop in

2373
01:35:11,149 --> 01:35:08,390
love to have you back anytime you want

2374
01:35:12,890 --> 01:35:11,159
to jump in yeah I'm down and of course

2375
01:35:14,570 --> 01:35:12,900
you're welcome on mind escaping both of

2376
01:35:18,050 --> 01:35:14,580
you are welcome on us you know anytime

2377
01:35:19,250 --> 01:35:18,060
as well we're just an open uh open Forum

2378
01:35:21,470 --> 01:35:19,260
like this just to have interesting

2379
01:35:23,030 --> 01:35:21,480
conversations awesome beautiful all

2380
01:35:29,750 --> 01:35:23,040
right Mike I'm gonna kick you off the

2381
01:35:33,350 --> 01:35:32,450
all right gentlemen we're gonna

2382
01:35:36,530 --> 01:35:33,360
um

2383
01:35:37,129 --> 01:35:36,540
next week is the 21st

2384
01:35:38,990 --> 01:35:37,139
um

2385
01:35:40,370 --> 01:35:39,000
I am not going to be on the show I'm

2386
01:35:41,750 --> 01:35:40,380
going to have the night off

2387
01:35:44,330 --> 01:35:41,760
um so we'll see if we actually even move

2388
01:35:46,550 --> 01:35:44,340
forward with anything TBD I don't think

2389
01:35:48,110 --> 01:35:46,560
we have anyone scheduled

2390
01:35:49,790 --> 01:35:48,120
I don't think so I mean we could always

2391
01:35:51,430 --> 01:35:49,800
do a round table or a Colin or something

2392
01:35:57,830 --> 01:35:51,440
yeah

2393
01:36:02,570 --> 01:36:00,950
um I loved his apologetically I made the

2394
01:36:09,669 --> 01:36:02,580
introduction less blue and more rational

2395
01:36:15,350 --> 01:36:11,990
wrestling looks like I'm thinking kind

2396
01:36:18,050 --> 01:36:15,360
of like a ccg like efed kind of thing

2397
01:36:18,950 --> 01:36:18,060
we'll make a game out of it

2398
01:36:20,750 --> 01:36:18,960
um

2399
01:36:23,270 --> 01:36:20,760
I don't know those acronyms you just

2400
01:36:24,950 --> 01:36:23,280
used but I mean well the ccg is the

2401
01:36:26,770 --> 01:36:24,960
collectible card game like your X-Files

2402
01:36:30,890 --> 01:36:26,780
oh ccg I think

2403
01:36:32,390 --> 01:36:30,900
I know about some ccgs dude yeah we're

2404
01:36:35,149 --> 01:36:32,400
gonna

2405
01:36:37,850 --> 01:36:35,159
figure out what that means yeah I'm

2406
01:36:40,850 --> 01:36:37,860
trying to get in my cat's name is kodo

2407
01:36:42,050 --> 01:36:40,860
uh it's named after a German Pop Song by

2408
01:36:44,209 --> 01:36:42,060
Dove

2409
01:36:46,729 --> 01:36:44,219
um should look it up of course how silly

2410
01:36:49,610 --> 01:36:48,530
um oh I want to mention I just got this

2411
01:36:51,590 --> 01:36:49,620
in the mail

2412
01:36:53,330 --> 01:36:51,600
estimate of the situation it is the uh

2413
01:36:57,850 --> 01:36:53,340
the National UFO historical record

2414
01:37:02,450 --> 01:36:59,990
this actually

2415
01:37:05,090 --> 01:37:02,460
um arrives really good right no and it

2416
01:37:07,189 --> 01:37:05,100
was it was put on the wrong uh shelf

2417
01:37:08,930 --> 01:37:07,199
down in the um where all the packages go

2418
01:37:11,330 --> 01:37:08,940
in my building oh and I haven't been

2419
01:37:18,910 --> 01:37:11,340
here for a while but uh I'm really

2420
01:37:23,810 --> 01:37:21,410
yeah a couple months ago um he's an

2421
01:37:25,970 --> 01:37:23,820
amazing guest this is a huge uh work of

2422
01:37:27,350 --> 01:37:25,980
passion he's super talented both in his

2423
01:37:28,550 --> 01:37:27,360
writing and research and in this art I

2424
01:37:30,890 --> 01:37:28,560
can't wait to hear what you think of it

2425
01:37:35,030 --> 01:37:30,900
after you've read it yeah the art uh it

2426
01:37:38,750 --> 01:37:35,040
it's got like almost a bill uh sinkevich

2427
01:37:40,970 --> 01:37:38,760
Vibe am I am I saying hit that right

2428
01:37:42,649 --> 01:37:40,980
yeah maybe he did stuff for like Marvel

2429
01:37:44,570 --> 01:37:42,659
and DC back in there I know what you're

2430
01:37:46,610 --> 01:37:44,580
talking about yeah yeah but I mean I'm

2431
01:37:48,950 --> 01:37:46,620
like a lot cleaner lines too which I

2432
01:37:50,750 --> 01:37:48,960
appreciate so like I'm I'm digging this

2433
01:37:52,070 --> 01:37:50,760
already also I noticed at the beginning

2434
01:37:54,229 --> 01:37:52,080
of the show people were saying like oh

2435
01:37:56,810 --> 01:37:54,239
don't store your records uh horizontally

2436
01:37:58,370 --> 01:37:56,820
this is actually uh UFOs in Michigan

2437
01:38:02,030 --> 01:37:58,380
where to find them by Cheryl and Linda

2438
01:38:07,209 --> 01:38:02,040
Costa oh hell yeah that's nice I I keep

2439
01:38:14,570 --> 01:38:12,110
I am going to uh build a Wilhelm Reich

2440
01:38:18,410 --> 01:38:14,580
style Cloud Buster and shoot one down

2441
01:38:21,530 --> 01:38:18,420
and then we'll have to shoot them on the

2442
01:38:22,910 --> 01:38:21,540
Internet shoot them down yeah oh my god

2443
01:38:25,310 --> 01:38:22,920
well that's what he thought he thought

2444
01:38:27,169 --> 01:38:25,320
they were they were crop dusting us with

2445
01:38:28,510 --> 01:38:27,179
negative work oh yeah and he was just

2446
01:38:34,990 --> 01:38:28,520
gonna

2447
01:38:41,689 --> 01:38:39,290
right guy yeah me too he's great yeah

2448
01:38:43,310 --> 01:38:41,699
um shoot him out of God's ears I got

2449
01:38:46,490 --> 01:38:43,320
yelled at about that I tweeted that and

2450
01:38:50,649 --> 01:38:46,500
John Tenney was like do not and I'm like

2451
01:38:55,990 --> 01:38:50,659
let's see sorry John pew pew pew

2452
01:39:00,470 --> 01:38:58,250
under the trickster in the Paranormal

2453
01:39:02,030 --> 01:39:00,480
and then I also started a very close

2454
01:39:03,890 --> 01:39:02,040
rereading so

2455
01:39:05,750 --> 01:39:03,900
um unfortunately he has been canceled

2456
01:39:07,970 --> 01:39:05,760
for having very bad old white guy

2457
01:39:10,490 --> 01:39:07,980
opinions about oh streamers and gender

2458
01:39:12,050 --> 01:39:10,500
identity yes but I was gonna say uh

2459
01:39:14,689 --> 01:39:12,060
behind the scenes I'm doing a fairly

2460
01:39:16,310 --> 01:39:14,699
close rereading of uh communion and plan

2461
01:39:21,470 --> 01:39:16,320
on reading kind of

2462
01:39:23,030 --> 01:39:21,480
um the other books in that nature

2463
01:39:24,890 --> 01:39:23,040
um I was going to read like

2464
01:39:29,410 --> 01:39:24,900
transformation

2465
01:39:34,729 --> 01:39:32,709
shows on that yeah yeah

2466
01:39:36,830 --> 01:39:34,739
I definitely will I'm trying to do a

2467
01:39:38,030 --> 01:39:36,840
deep dive into Whitley

2468
01:39:40,070 --> 01:39:38,040
um understand more of his work

2469
01:39:42,050 --> 01:39:40,080
especially now that look when I first

2470
01:39:43,790 --> 01:39:42,060
read communion uh I was working at the

2471
01:39:45,410 --> 01:39:43,800
body shop as a makeup artist and I was

2472
01:39:48,410 --> 01:39:45,420
16 and working Saturday night so I'd

2473
01:39:50,149 --> 01:39:48,420
read behind the counter I was like

2474
01:39:52,610 --> 01:39:50,159
uh and obviously in a completely

2475
01:39:55,550 --> 01:39:52,620
different experience than I am now with

2476
01:39:57,470 --> 01:39:55,560
some of the like broader knowledge of

2477
01:39:59,030 --> 01:39:57,480
spiritual emergence and perennialism and

2478
01:40:01,070 --> 01:39:59,040
stuff and so it's kind of interesting to

2479
01:40:03,890 --> 01:40:01,080
go back and revisit Street Birds work

2480
01:40:07,129 --> 01:40:03,900
was a more informed lens about these

2481
01:40:10,629 --> 01:40:07,139
kinds of experiences that he reports

2482
01:40:13,490 --> 01:40:10,639
um I think I think you should uh

2483
01:40:15,950 --> 01:40:13,500
doubles down on everything all right go

2484
01:40:18,709 --> 01:40:15,960
ahead you should put one of his fiction

2485
01:40:20,810 --> 01:40:18,719
books in there uh while you're reading

2486
01:40:23,270 --> 01:40:20,820
those and you should kind of you know do

2487
01:40:26,209 --> 01:40:23,280
a compare and contrast in fact you were

2488
01:40:28,550 --> 01:40:26,219
challenged to do so uh the night church

2489
01:40:30,649 --> 01:40:28,560
you um a couple months ago you were

2490
01:40:32,750 --> 01:40:30,659
challenged to read after you made

2491
01:40:35,209 --> 01:40:32,760
comments on this show about streamer by

2492
01:40:38,209 --> 01:40:35,219
your number one fan uh Martin kottmeyer

2493
01:40:40,010 --> 01:40:38,219
Oh Martin yes I love Martin caught Meyer

2494
01:40:42,290 --> 01:40:40,020
and I will happily read my church and

2495
01:40:43,910 --> 01:40:42,300
then I will slide into his DMS we're

2496
01:40:47,149 --> 01:40:43,920
actually friends on Facebook I will

2497
01:40:48,410 --> 01:40:47,159
slide into his DMS and say Mr copmeier I

2498
01:40:50,990 --> 01:40:48,420
have this weird little show on Wednesday

2499
01:40:52,610 --> 01:40:51,000
nights we'd love to have you join us the

2500
01:40:55,729 --> 01:40:52,620
creative oh yeah I'd love to get them on

2501
01:40:58,910 --> 01:40:55,739
the the creative mind that that wrote

2502
01:41:01,010 --> 01:40:58,920
night church he says is quite capable of

2503
01:41:04,189 --> 01:41:01,020
coming up with the experiences written

2504
01:41:05,689 --> 01:41:04,199
about in communion yes so let me know

2505
01:41:11,410 --> 01:41:05,699
how that goes

2506
01:41:18,770 --> 01:41:14,689
Lake Desert Rats that I downloaded off

2507
01:41:21,470 --> 01:41:18,780
of AFU yeah I dialed them off the um

2508
01:41:24,169 --> 01:41:21,480
or internet archive oh okay yeah because

2509
01:41:27,470 --> 01:41:24,179
you're not hosted anymore and I just

2510
01:41:29,870 --> 01:41:27,480
kind of want to go I'm I'm working on

2511
01:41:32,570 --> 01:41:29,880
kind of like uh trying to get my mind

2512
01:41:35,030 --> 01:41:32,580
around a larger historical

2513
01:41:37,490 --> 01:41:35,040
um timeline for some of the stuff that

2514
01:41:39,709 --> 01:41:37,500
we're experiencing coming back now and

2515
01:41:41,390 --> 01:41:39,719
go back and read kind of go back and

2516
01:41:43,850 --> 01:41:41,400
read some of his stuff about Bob Lazar

2517
01:41:45,470 --> 01:41:43,860
as it was happening and the j-rods and

2518
01:41:47,870 --> 01:41:45,480
stuff and I am still even though it's a

2519
01:41:51,050 --> 01:41:47,880
really short book it's like an essay I'm

2520
01:41:54,709 --> 01:41:51,060
still working through sex secrets of the

2521
01:41:56,330 --> 01:41:54,719
Black magicians exposed oh yes I just

2522
01:41:59,450 --> 01:41:56,340
packed this tonight

2523
01:42:01,010 --> 01:41:59,460
which is not about any of that really

2524
01:42:03,070 --> 01:42:01,020
um yeah I've talked about that last time

2525
01:42:06,050 --> 01:42:03,080
before that's been really uh

2526
01:42:07,550 --> 01:42:06,060
philosophically informative but I feel

2527
01:42:10,669 --> 01:42:07,560
like I have to read a bit and digest

2528
01:42:11,930 --> 01:42:10,679
it's kind of let it sit yeah yes that's

2529
01:42:13,129 --> 01:42:11,940
like how I feel about the trickster in

2530
01:42:15,830 --> 01:42:13,139
the Paranormal I feel like I'm gonna be

2531
01:42:17,990 --> 01:42:15,840
reading that book not only forever but

2532
01:42:20,090 --> 01:42:18,000
it's basically going to give me an ever

2533
01:42:22,070 --> 01:42:20,100
expanding list of other books that I

2534
01:42:23,810 --> 01:42:22,080
need to read oh the bibliography of you

2535
01:42:25,790 --> 01:42:23,820
the bibliography is like this much of

2536
01:42:29,330 --> 01:42:25,800
the book on the back yeah it's not

2537
01:42:29,340 --> 01:42:35,050
what about you Nick yeah what's up

2538
01:42:40,910 --> 01:42:37,970
I said

2539
01:42:43,189 --> 01:42:40,920
yeah I uh I won that game it was really

2540
01:42:44,510 --> 01:42:43,199
fun um yeah it had been 10 years since I

2541
01:42:47,390 --> 01:42:44,520
played it but it all kind of came back

2542
01:42:49,189 --> 01:42:47,400
to me so super fun I think more people

2543
01:42:50,629 --> 01:42:49,199
should check out that game there's

2544
01:42:52,189 --> 01:42:50,639
um you know it's a limited amount of

2545
01:42:55,729 --> 01:42:52,199
sets it's not a lot to learn like you've

2546
01:42:58,250 --> 01:42:55,739
fallen into magic or something like that

2547
01:43:00,709 --> 01:42:58,260
um and it was it was live streamed uh

2548
01:43:03,109 --> 01:43:00,719
Studio Sequim on on YouTube my games

2549
01:43:04,129 --> 01:43:03,119
live stream you can see my epic win on

2550
01:43:06,649 --> 01:43:04,139
there

2551
01:43:08,570 --> 01:43:06,659
I solved this X-File

2552
01:43:10,010 --> 01:43:08,580
it's cool it's it's a super fun game and

2553
01:43:12,169 --> 01:43:10,020
those guys that Community around that

2554
01:43:14,390 --> 01:43:12,179
game kind of uh maintaining it and

2555
01:43:17,870 --> 01:43:14,400
preserving it are all really cool like I

2556
01:43:19,370 --> 01:43:17,880
just pretty recently and they're all

2557
01:43:21,590 --> 01:43:19,380
cool people

2558
01:43:22,370 --> 01:43:21,600
so that's I'm doing that

2559
01:43:23,689 --> 01:43:22,380
um

2560
01:43:25,209 --> 01:43:23,699
I read it I'm reading I'm gonna be

2561
01:43:27,410 --> 01:43:25,219
reading that

2562
01:43:30,290 --> 01:43:27,420
and that's it

2563
01:43:32,330 --> 01:43:30,300
beautiful anything else not even asleep

2564
01:43:36,350 --> 01:43:32,340
you have a long weekend coming up I

2565
01:43:39,410 --> 01:43:36,360
might actually clean up a little bit so

2566
01:43:40,910 --> 01:43:39,420
yeah it's a disaster that's the big

2567
01:43:46,450 --> 01:43:40,920
reason we're at the star field this is

2568
01:43:50,870 --> 01:43:49,070
that's books on the floor but they're

2569
01:43:52,790 --> 01:43:50,880
starting to form like drifts like

2570
01:43:55,189 --> 01:43:52,800
they're they're they're they're forming

2571
01:43:57,470 --> 01:43:55,199
their own like theological features and

2572
01:43:59,270 --> 01:43:57,480
I keep promising myself like I tend to

2573
01:44:00,350 --> 01:43:59,280
read all my books like unless I like

2574
01:44:03,169 --> 01:44:00,360
same

2575
01:44:04,669 --> 01:44:03,179
die before I get a chance to okay and

2576
01:44:07,970 --> 01:44:04,679
not buying them because I have like

2577
01:44:09,770 --> 01:44:07,980
billiomani or anything but I keep I'm

2578
01:44:12,590 --> 01:44:09,780
like I'm not gonna buy any more books

2579
01:44:15,830 --> 01:44:12,600
then I bought um saucers and Spooks

2580
01:44:18,830 --> 01:44:15,840
because oh yeah all all the discussion

2581
01:44:21,590 --> 01:44:18,840
lately and I bought um hold on what did

2582
01:44:23,990 --> 01:44:21,600
I have coming because I like I like I'm

2583
01:44:26,629 --> 01:44:24,000
really um practicing

2584
01:44:29,270 --> 01:44:26,639
serious self-deception on this I got

2585
01:44:31,550 --> 01:44:29,280
saucers and Spooks coming I've got trans

2586
01:44:34,070 --> 01:44:31,560
mediums and New Media Spirit possession

2587
01:44:36,950 --> 01:44:34,080
in the age of Technology of technical

2588
01:44:40,250 --> 01:44:36,960
reproduction coming wait what's that

2589
01:44:43,129 --> 01:44:40,260
called France mediums and New Media

2590
01:44:45,590 --> 01:44:43,139
Spirit possession in the age of

2591
01:44:47,090 --> 01:44:45,600
technical reproduction that sounds

2592
01:44:49,370 --> 01:44:47,100
interesting yeah that should be a good

2593
01:44:51,530 --> 01:44:49,380
one that should be good

2594
01:44:52,629 --> 01:44:51,540
um I've got how to contact space people

2595
01:44:58,070 --> 01:44:52,639
coming

2596
01:44:59,649 --> 01:44:58,080
again shoot them down yeah and then

2597
01:45:03,350 --> 01:44:59,659
um I'm

2598
01:45:05,149 --> 01:45:03,360
uh got to the uh cyber used copy of the

2599
01:45:07,790 --> 01:45:05,159
cybernetics of Creation with the cool

2600
01:45:09,229 --> 01:45:07,800
cover coming

2601
01:45:12,350 --> 01:45:09,239
beautiful

2602
01:45:13,790 --> 01:45:12,360
because um I still uh I'm still trying

2603
01:45:15,950 --> 01:45:13,800
to wrap my head around the whole Penny

2604
01:45:17,090 --> 01:45:15,960
Royal thing where all the guys think

2605
01:45:17,750 --> 01:45:17,100
this is

2606
01:45:20,149 --> 01:45:17,760
um

2607
01:45:22,790 --> 01:45:20,159
uh cybernetic Phenom all the phenomenon

2608
01:45:25,609 --> 01:45:22,800
is we kind of corresponds to laws of

2609
01:45:29,629 --> 01:45:25,619
cybernetics somehow

2610
01:45:34,189 --> 01:45:29,639
yeah yeah exactly exactly all right

2611
01:45:35,030 --> 01:45:34,199
gentlemen it's time yes good night good

2612
01:45:36,830 --> 01:45:35,040
night

2613
01:45:40,270 --> 01:45:36,840
talk to either of you on Friday happy

2614
01:45:44,209 --> 01:45:40,280
Picard day thank you sir um happy

2615
01:45:46,430 --> 01:45:44,219
Juneteenth next week yes

2616
01:45:52,910 --> 01:45:46,440
uh

2617
01:45:58,300 --> 01:45:52,920
all right man here's all

2618
01:45:58,310 --> 01:46:17,149
[Music]

2619
01:46:17,159 --> 01:46:19,550
thank you

2620
01:46:36,800 --> 01:46:34,220
[Music]

2621
01:46:55,970 --> 01:46:36,810
[Applause]

2622
01:46:55,980 --> 01:46:59,490
foreign